Re: [Doh] [DNSOP] Proposal for a side-meeting on services centralization at IETF 104 Prague

George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> Thu, 14 March 2019 01:10 UTC

Return-Path: <ggm@algebras.org>
X-Original-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2988C1279A8 for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XAeNldUPYGn6 for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd35.google.com (mail-io1-xd35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A7F1130E9A for <doh@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd35.google.com with SMTP id x9so3469383iog.12 for <doh@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=W6yfIj1GiT7uj4i4CXnRTr4cznK+qnV6Wp/Z5W+hr74=; b=EtzBKFGADhg5VkEkDkMz0XgwDGbiYWRzXwGyjXj/SsHLImLu1A9SObjBDwzX7cqwY9 KPVUYovynmg84O8kLL46yiADpjVos46aVuWrfJfkFEQZ5B/EfZtjXxnPw3VkoaU1wcJg zJtmXHFKNRfrWZpUR44/WoVZz8El9uVnuZIDUNNjdZdZn02pasPDBT8p5YAW33eanPRL GFgt5QZbfrYBIUrpyw83usH3c390cM818DxZ0ny8RosKtoXErK6mMWfhMPLwRNCjkBYQ LtUFtyZCzn8+02HKiZeGwscuS3dWAY0ZGJgVgKVpOHLFz8PY1x63pHWMQz/8/1sf9/qI tnag==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=W6yfIj1GiT7uj4i4CXnRTr4cznK+qnV6Wp/Z5W+hr74=; b=osJ31zQhwOKNOFGComECpvmSX2HFenb5smbv16/YxSt4iZLHfw4BQza8N/bY30Fg8T ofdOMGrS7Hw5qAMWjeb9sf5ZaXN32Oh0DLw84MW1PaKbEYe9SagE6D+0JGN4yBvsX7AW ZcRNWl2Fm7PxriGSeXU289C7/8uTiR6SS4gEdEid57uOPaN7K9qWHk5wo0iE6gSMkGFE 6rGcRtdR/zDv5wfK4ibJMuia/uZrCavEiV59xjm5TWeWBS08xShhgYdzdw0Jfc1h4PIX KeCsRbnQUGR0kTa4oyHbuo+6BMs+nHFiWOSdR/dXn0Na+sWfrVCqzZ0DzWjf3kJJXXKD FAUw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX6bB+F5ynmSa56ZOVMcuuzVnkQ38K2/mWqhQY0j+mD8foj+Wz6 8J6h7pfHcdWN4Iv5gAzLzDU02UtPR+cYEfTxDK+2Xw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwna0F6F+WCbPesDmHiENnePHXHQsQ87m7S31so6rwryND+tXfar8WoJf38amCO/o7KWhoCcYh33lR//03egvI=
X-Received: by 2002:a6b:d304:: with SMTP id s4mr22429771iob.228.1552525810399; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20190311170218.o5hitvysuefhjjxk@nic.fr> <1829067625.16839.1552327024048@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <20190312090142.s32hdimbozsrbovt@nic.fr> <2044747.4WdMZHU4Qz@linux-9daj> <D97261BB-1D62-400F-8EBD-886B5BA586BD@fugue.com>
In-Reply-To: <D97261BB-1D62-400F-8EBD-886B5BA586BD@fugue.com>
From: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 11:09:58 +1000
Message-ID: <CAKr6gn0yN9Xy6+Lmp3DHhirenNkxEbzw5-Rj=D2-U_275jwt_g@mail.gmail.com>
To: dns-privacy@ietf.org
Cc: dnsop WG <dnsop@ietf.org>, DoH WG <doh@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/doh/YpFoVY1EI_k8nBtSGkfHbvM_KC0>
Subject: Re: [Doh] [DNSOP] Proposal for a side-meeting on services centralization at IETF 104 Prague
X-BeenThere: doh@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS Over HTTPS <doh.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/doh/>
List-Post: <mailto:doh@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 01:10:16 -0000

we're in danger of acronym soup here. RDNS can refer to reverse-DNS
(in-addr.arpa and ip6.arpa) and I think usurping it for Resolverless
DNS is an interesting moment.

-George

On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 10:49 AM Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
>
> On Mar 12, 2019, at 2:52 PM, Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org> wrote:
>
> please do not relegate discussions about the loss of operator control over the
> RDNS control plane
>
>
> Although it’s certainly true that DNS is used as a control plane by many operators, there is no standard “RDNS control plane.”   If you think there should be, that’s something that the IETF could conceivably work on, but it’s not something that the DoH working group is obligated to treat as a standard use of DNS.   And I don’t think it’s a topic on which there is consensus in the IETF.
>
> The problem with the discussion we’ve been having about DoH and how it affects your “RDNS control plane” is that we’re talking past each other, not that the discussion should be had elsewhere.   It’s fine for there to be a discussion, but if there is going to be a discussion, participants need to engage constructively, and not just fling slogans at each other.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Doh mailing list
> Doh@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh