Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03
Justin Henck <henck@google.com> Thu, 08 February 2018 19:24 UTC
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From: Justin Henck <henck@google.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2018 19:23:56 +0000
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To: rhewitt@akamai.com
Cc: ek@google.com, Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>, doh@ietf.org, mbishop@evequefou.be
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Subject: Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03
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> > I am more in favor of a set of simple requirements, so simple client and > server implementation can exist and provide the basics of DOH > functionality. > Optionally, discovery can be used to be more fancy and provide > extensibility, but at the core of it, I would expect that knowing a domain > and optionally an IP (to avoid the chicken and egg issue of being able to > resolve the DOH server IP ) should be enough to be able to access DNS over > HTTPS using GET at a well known endpoint. I may be misunderstanding, but doesn't this imply either a fixed path, or a discoverable path via another (e.g. .well-known/dns)? On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 2:22 PM Hewitt, Rory <rhewitt@akamai.com> wrote: > Additionally, using /.well-known/ would allow for URI Template discovery, > if required - client retrieves URI Template from e.g. > /.well-known/doh.template and then uses that to build DNS request URI. > > > > See https://github.com/dohwg/draft-ietf-doh-dns-over-https/issues/74 for > @mnot's suggestion. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rory > > > > *Rory Hewitt* > > Senior Solutions Architect > > Global Services & Support > > Akamai Technologies > > Tel: (408) 650-0035 > > > > *From:* Justin Henck [mailto:henck@google.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2018 11:17 AM > *To:* ek@google.com > *Cc:* Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>; doh@ietf.org; mbishop@evequefou.be > *Subject:* Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 > > > > That would work for the situation I specified, but I think that a > .well-known pointer provides the additional benefit of serving more > technical users with an advanced configuration. (It is also in-line with > the intended use of .well-known as I understand RFC 5785.) > > > > Specifically, if an implementer creates an advanced setting whereby you > can configure a DOH server with both a domain and an IP (to eliminate the > need for bootstrapping) then you have made the user's life easier. And, > although a URI is not supposed to change, a .well-known/dns pointer > requirement would ensure that capricious servers don't break > manually-configured clients. > > > > > *Justin Henck* > Product Manager > > 212-565-9811 > > google.com/jigsaw > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__google.com_jigsaw&d=DwMFaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=h4goE6gK_ZaRrvwi4Hglaq0NyaBCb3I3XALyazxKb6w&m=KrH6cYm-gcGpqevreKzpdpsMm-hErKTCNEthg2TBsTU&s=N-RLQbYhldj1naDovU3jQQtWdiNb5pbKuxXJJ3p663Y&e=> > > > > PGP: EA8E 8C27 2D75 974D B357 482B 1039 9F2D 869A 117B > > > > On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 1:59 PM Erik Kline <ek@google.com> wrote: > > Sounds like you might want a (TXT) record at the zone cut level? > > On 8 February 2018 at 10:55, Justin Henck <henck@google.com> wrote: > > I would like to see a way for clients to discover a DNS server hosted on > a > > certain domain. Perhaps a .well-known/dns path that contains a relative > > pointer and other metadata. I'm imagining a use case whereby the user > could > > choose to rely upon an organization that they find trustworthy which is > > offering DNS, without needing to do a significant amount of discovery > (e.g. > > "maybe known.tld has a DNS server?"). You could of course also have an > > absolute pointer, but then you have to account for the situation whereby > > known.tld might delegate to unknown.tld. > > > > Justin Henck > > Google > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 1:21 PM Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com> wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> > wrote: > >>> > >>> I’m inclined to think this is a positive change. We’re trying to do > >>> something better than the current world of “trust the local DNS server > >>> because unauthenticated DHCP says so”, and promiscuous trust just > because a > >>> server claims it support DOH via a .well-known endpoint isn’t really > any > >>> better. > >> > >> > >> To be clear, the draft never proposed promiscuous trust, which would > >> indeed be highly problematic. However, draft-03 does include additional > >> language clarifying this point. > >> > >>> > >>> The client should know the hostname(s) of the DOH server(s) it wants to > >>> use > >> > >> > >> In draft-03, "knowing the hostname" is not sufficient, because there is > no > >> default path for DOH. This is the change on which I am seeking input. > >> > >>> > >>> , and it should authenticate the DOH server against that hostname. > >> > >> > >> Yes, definitely. (I believe the draft is clear on this point, but feel > >> free to suggest improvements.) > >> > >>> > >>> If a server hosts content and also wants to also serve DOH, there are > >>> ways to present a hostname that covers both names (or present two > >>> certificates) on an HTTP connection. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Doh [mailto:doh-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Schwartz > >>> Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 10:05 AM > >>> To: doh@ietf.org > >>> Subject: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> The authors of draft-ietf-doh-dns-over-https have been making good > >>> progress, and a draft-03 is now ready with several changes and > >>> clarifications. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> One important difference is that draft-03 no longer proposes a > >>> ".well-known" entry. In draft-02 and prior, clients could check for > the > >>> presence of a DOH service at the default path, given only the domain > name of > >>> a server. In draft-03, there is no default path, so clients must be > >>> configured with the full URL of the DOH endpoint. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Is this change compatible with your use cases? Would this alter the > way > >>> users interact with your systems? How do you think DOH client > configuration > >>> should work? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Please respond with your thoughts, > >>> > >>> Ben Schwartz > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Doh mailing list > >> Doh@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_doh&d=DwMFaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=h4goE6gK_ZaRrvwi4Hglaq0NyaBCb3I3XALyazxKb6w&m=KrH6cYm-gcGpqevreKzpdpsMm-hErKTCNEthg2TBsTU&s=T69zw0O8NFcgM07c8aK0knaf9RoDeSYGFdN_MXSy4a4&e=> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Doh mailing list > > Doh@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_doh&d=DwMFaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=h4goE6gK_ZaRrvwi4Hglaq0NyaBCb3I3XALyazxKb6w&m=KrH6cYm-gcGpqevreKzpdpsMm-hErKTCNEthg2TBsTU&s=T69zw0O8NFcgM07c8aK0knaf9RoDeSYGFdN_MXSy4a4&e=> > > > >
- [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Ben Schwartz
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Mike Bishop
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Seeking input on draft-03 Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Ben Schwartz
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Justin Henck
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Erik Kline
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Justin Henck
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 manu tman
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Hewitt, Rory
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Justin Henck
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 manu tman
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Justin Henck
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Doh] Seeking input on draft-03 Justin Henck