IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Doh] [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients

Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Wed, 13 March 2019 03:39 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF65127970 for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:39:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tq7JRMFtYy6S for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB92112788C for <doh@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from xsmtp31.mail2web.com ([168.144.250.234] helo=xsmtp11.mail2web.com) by mx37.antispamcloud.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1h3uk6-0007L9-N1 for doh@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 04:39:47 +0100
Received: from [10.5.2.16] (helo=xmail06.myhosting.com) by xsmtp11.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1h3uk4-0008Kn-Oc for doh@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 23:39:45 -0400
Received: (qmail 13328 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2019 03:39:43 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.103]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.56.42.166]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail06.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <dnsop@ietf.org>; 13 Mar 2019 03:39:43 -0000
To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
Cc: dns-privacy@ietf.org, doh@ietf.org, dnsop@ietf.org
References: <1700920918.12557.1552229700654@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <76386691-c1aa-c48a-9b0d-67eb36a08a4f@redbarn.org> <CABcZeBOWM0Ps-j3V-CK6VPy0LAqeo7-t7odUZy+dk9d-oCSDsg@mail.gmail.com> <4935758.NkxX2Kjbm0@linux-9daj> <c2c2be47-0855-a9d1-dd53-2404edf4d02b@huitema.net> <807193999.19916.1552445819087@appsuite.open-xchange.com>
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFIRX8gBCAC26usy/Ya38IqaLBSu33vKD6hP5Yw390XsWLaAZTeQR64OJEkoOdXpvcOS HWfMIlD5s5+oHfLe8jjmErFAXYJ8yytPj1fD2OdSKAe1TccUBiOXT8wdVxSr5d0alExVv/LO I/vA2aU1TwOkVHKSapD7j8/HZBrqIWRrXUSj2f5n9tY2nJzG9KRzSG0giaJWBfUFiGb4lvsy IaCaIU0YpfkDDk6PtK5YYzuCeF0B+O7N9LhDu/foUUc4MNq4K3EKDPb2FL1Hrv0XHpkXeMRZ olpH8SUFUJbmi+zYRuUgcXgMZRmZFL1tu6z9h6gY4/KPyF9aYot6zG28Qk/BFQRtj7V1ABEB AAG0J0NocmlzdGlhbiBIdWl0ZW1hIDxodWl0ZW1hQGh1aXRlbWEubmV0PokBOQQTAQIAIwUC UhFfyAIbLwcLCQgHAwIBBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEJNDCbJVyA1yhbYH/1ud6x6m VqGIp0JcZUfSQO8w+TjugqxCyGNn+w/6Qb5O/xENxNQ4HaMQ5uSRK9n8WKKDDRSzwZ4syKKf wbkfj05vgFxrjCynVbm1zs2X2aGXh+PxPL/WHUaxzEP7KjYbLtCUZDRzOOrm+0LMktngT/k3 6+EZoLEM52hwwpIAzJoscyEz7QfqMOZtFm6xQnlvDQeIrHx0KUvwo/vgDLK3SuruG1CSHcR0 D24kEEUa044AIUKBS3b0b8AR7f6mP2NcnLpdsibtpabi9BzqAidcY/EjTaoea46HXALk/eJd 6OLkLE6UQe1PPzQC4jB7rErX2BxnSkHDw50xMgLRcl5/b1a5AQ0EUhFfyAEIAKp7Cp8lqKTV CC9QiAf6QTIjW+lie5J44Ad++0k8gRgANZVWubQuCQ71gxDWLtxYfFkEXjG4TXV/MUtnOliG 5rc2E+ih6Dg61Y5PQakm9OwPIsOx+2R+iSW325ngln2UQrVPgloO83QiUoi7mBJPbcHlxkhZ bd3+EjFxSLIQogt29sTcg2oSh4oljUpz5niTt69IOfZx21kf29NfDE+Iw56gfrxI2ywZbu5o G+d0ZSp0lsovygpk4jK04fDTq0vxjEU5HjPcsXC4CSZdq5E2DrF4nOh1UHkHzeaXdYR2Bn1Y wTePfaHBFlvQzI+Li/Q6AD/uxbTM0vIcsUxrv3MNHCUAEQEAAYkCPgQYAQIACQUCUhFfyAIb LgEpCRCTQwmyVcgNcsBdIAQZAQIABgUCUhFfyAAKCRC22tOSFDh1UOlBB/94RsCJepNvmi/c YiNmMnm0mKb6vjv43OsHkqrrCqJSfo95KHyl5Up4JEp8tiJMyYT2mp4IsirZHxz/5lqkw9Az tcGAF3GlFsj++xTyD07DXlNeddwTKlqPRi/b8sppjtWur6Pm+wnAHp0mQ7GidhxHccFCl65w uT7S/ocb1MjrTgnAMiz+x87d48n1UJ7yIdI41Wpg2XFZiA9xPBiDuuoPwFj14/nK0elV5Dvq 4/HVgfurb4+fd74PV/CC/dmd7hg0ZRlgnB5rFUcFO7ywb7/TvICIIaLWcI42OJDSZjZ/MAzz BeXm263lHh+kFxkh2LxEHnQGHCHGpTYyi4Z3dv03HtkH/1SI8joQMQq00Bv+RdEbJXfEExrT u4gtdZAihwvy97OPA2nCdTAHm/phkzryMeOaOztI4PS8u2Ce5lUB6P/HcGtK/038KdX5MYST Fn8KUDt4o29bkv0CUXwDzS3oTzPNtGdryBkRMc9b+yn9+AdwFEH4auhiTQXPMnl0+G3nhKr7 jvzVFJCRif3OAhEm4vmBNDE3uuaXFQnbK56GJrnqVN+KX5Z3M7X3fA8UcVCGOEHXRP/aubiw Ngawj0V9x+43kUapFp+nF69R53UI65YtJ95ec4PTO/Edvap8h1UbdEOc4+TiYwY1TBuIKltY 1cnrjgAWUh/Ucvr++/KbD9tD6C8=
Message-ID: <9e40ac38-fa10-bbdc-1bfc-302e0ca170df@huitema.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:39:42 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <807193999.19916.1552445819087@appsuite.open-xchange.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-US
X-Originating-IP: 168.144.250.234
X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Username: 168.144.250.0/24
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=168.144.250.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.18)
X-Recommended-Action: accept
X-Filter-ID: EX5BVjFpneJeBchSMxfU5nhhtHPDMpxc2YLAr0vhfKJ602E9L7XzfQH6nu9C/Fh9KJzpNe6xgvOx q3u0UDjvO25BUjnzxeaqnrPDaA78u19VMZsRZacTbJPGp/MBC6BxHFAv2RJrlzr7n27y9mKHtUh5 mNm/WjPqhYqCeBiCKwzwNnO0oYiZjOnC1Xa7kCO2sYjO05mTPID+/6Aj9ZzRI/vRa7MR4hgRIg8N 1QlY4G7x1YBTEs55LirRLgpsvCFt8i77Wu2Jb/TI0CxS53moc/SlgXpNwUDmiieE9G+9VqfZ1kay mqFCHRp6u+mIhIXg5jssJAnfERZ2C5vj1sOdsnQOD0r6/AaHZiEtdTMtMljoSvSqrGwueTSCQFid cy15jQ4HwbF4aWaRl0axA525ouWBOXp8nHKe0R+FkIqN7hkgzj0zEmu34GPXR572RNl5VgW9/bkt U41htiJ8fk7NkHmplbyYh4+w03es32OzjfSo5Jhwk+hMTKYppuA2BaWeipTPWMHGUquOFNpW9R6n Md9TLrF9l3ItGfA/WrnALV5BhFjwanMsx4Rx/4gso194hPg+bPVScl7pKoYc6HuoJiTtEj+bvnho NdnsZyyO4yE69TdE5SQ4dxJir0Y8rHr0CnFV4ppbCSIV+5MQOIhZD0YsNwSrwzPbXZMD1WP1LXFD lJBVkCSQ2iLcAY5Y0XJtqwPiG77RlB1oqlzsN7KI5Od/gB/NihMPulp0+atPY7ir2Sqw9KBaAUuM ZylbRx9Eiw3ZdHQ3+5Ez2N2wnzZ1IVZJ2M+zEpkFF0ivqIXa3VYUjH7OdA4AxqY9XSPDZhXTawLW W3GG8MACLK1/XOkZcwxWFSzsWt2uE/YFyU00jIgFmOuE2myvw52ju4vOqkVF7R9lLUJTOMC9AqYW 1lRNjkWXJryJ9+EiOvBe6vFbUGRrwytzyq4nhu0+m3/YUu4UI2GoiS4jWHSkvyyyS8KErWmYf+RR A94if7oLzRs73BRh3+MrOOK4NgfP/RZivWtTzbcnsscMdnMYECIJ64duuA==
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine9.antispamcloud.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/doh/vEMAqX-pPplSQzm7PIJ6Sp2bqBI>
Subject: Re: [Doh] [dns-privacy] [DNSOP] New: draft-bertola-bcp-doh-clients
X-BeenThere: doh@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS Over HTTPS <doh.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/doh/>
List-Post: <mailto:doh@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:39:50 -0000

On 3/12/2019 7:56 PM, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
> The reaction I got from some policy people when I mentioned this kind of arguments going on here is "when did the IETF get the mandate to decide for everyone that content filtering by intermediaries is always bad? This is matter for competition / telco / human rights legislation, and will vary country by country."


The mirror image of that statement is, "when did intermediaries get a
mandate to filter content?" The internet architecture assumes full
connectivity. At some point, people deployed middle-boxes and filtered
content because they could. They did not exactly try to get a mandate,
or obtain consensus that this was proper. Technologies like DoH force
the discussion in the open. Why do you think you can filter content? Who
made you king?

-- Christian Huitema

v2.8.7 | Report a Bug | By Email