IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Doh] GDPR and DoH

"Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> Tue, 09 April 2019 21:30 UTC

Return-Path: <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
X-Original-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1121E12032F for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 14:30:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (4096-bit key) header.d=comcast.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NvpGBucwdGlQ for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 14:30:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from copdcmhout02.cable.comcast.com (copdcmhout02.cable.comcast.com [96.114.158.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 100CF1201BD for <doh@ietf.org>; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 14:30:14 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=comcast.com; s=20190220p; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@comcast.com; t=1554845413; x=2418759013; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=viJa6lUNQ4+tJTDCbgUclw2sbrEOHNZUzg/hznLCxHQ=; b=yuVgVSnhQUTJM3A+we+t8GvaTN0PtW+CMPRVeEXsOjxWWev8tCnF04ih8KH3Ella e0Ezm69anEdj3K1FgIyEHOszBrCn4umXMGejgHeK5JoJkC/MBwxfFVlLZKPLTXws V0fRmwhdhTScl1ACbRjX14G1D23BMuVabmPDjP5C0KzNNJaCZFS1Q5znOtsCIhzw M55ojQQoYFX+ICkoU432WdqObvb1yh4MnpAxxZ4KQNb6x16ZTqk4FEE04DdO1JCx Gwxmn7LNXSqimWK2aESoRSl317yhWihlb81anBI0m0X59vG5gvJpBuAPBpV0LO+Z B1cHnpoIbzR356A24EJhh/qSOYS6HTWPr6ksk3TTdU55LXGbCNRIgxBkop3N8LUD 3OIjr6srhScrBpIGR+mfYH06o9tKkwJqfneHKNIsvzQ77pNs7OaCtOxbFZgOPY2x TM6z0cBl/nwV3PHZxlyvtzA+0SChmn1k8Nbh3cmyiJkcniejbzkCDtcFFhq0sI4I b0MP22EWwDw7FNjRg2Lvw/2dmfs2vLQNoHy4iNGV+JVCR26ftsI6bQWIRN4wikRn E1PY1ZOHEEn72PY3qUkL3jYYM5lZgD5jG7pTy9wkw53LpIkQjg0jiRSLHW9lOSg5 zdLHUP4p1cLcM1uT7upoBn2HMIJ/CT/EjdptX7R9b34=;
X-AuditID: 60729ed4-ef9ff7000000403c-43-5cad0ee5648f
Received: from COPDCEXC40.cable.comcast.com (copdcmhoutvip.cable.comcast.com [96.114.156.147]) (using TLS with cipher AES256-SHA256 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by copdcmhout02.cable.comcast.com (SMTP Gateway) with SMTP id 88.DA.16444.5EE0DAC5; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 15:30:13 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from COPDCEXC37.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.136) by COPDCEXC40.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 17:30:12 -0400
Received: from COPDCEXC37.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe36:8a94]) by COPDCEXC37.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe36:8a94%15]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 17:30:12 -0400
From: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com>
CC: DoH WG <doh@ietf.org>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Thread-Topic: [Doh] GDPR and DoH
Thread-Index: AQHU7KbhaeGhA3ndo0KG/16FtuuyWaYvvemAgAE48ACAAANBgIADY2sA
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 21:30:12 +0000
Message-ID: <A008933A-32EF-44F9-881E-547100CBA521@cable.comcast.com>
References: <1700920918.12557.1552229700654@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <7667c4d7-2e78-0a27-84af-cf1c00fd4897@cs.tcd.ie> <1991054337.12802.1552259263075@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <eea64b30-aad0-a030-5360-1b1484f1d0e3@huitema.net> <CAPsNn2WhjHSEHJUEL8GB6X0d24fkajgPnY4YgkOQbXjyxb5q8Q@mail.gmail.com> <CACfw2hj07TDCxK9bm0T=JguKyuCEfW2zb_yRJnewjOYL4oxdjA@mail.gmail.com> <CACsn0cmk7NbF+ti0dU7Fp0PK8Gt4P5knC5hrHVLDY59-jaYYzA@mail.gmail.com> <6030358E-24FF-4033-B0A1-AB1123FED964@rfc1035.com> <5ce0d730-aac2-95c9-fead-64cbffa03d52@cs.tcd.ie> <AE840785-E355-4BCA-A9E1-AFFA069D801C@rfc1035.com> <21030952-B21B-4C68-86DE-394A58D59DAB@huitema.net>
In-Reply-To: <21030952-B21B-4C68-86DE-394A58D59DAB@huitema.net>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.17.1.190326
x-originating-ip: [96.114.156.7]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <512406A5A89D5C488125095F92082967@comcast.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-CFilter-Loop: Forward
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrNKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWSUDRnsu5TvrUxBve/6Vhcu3uRzWJy42x2 i3PPEiym773G7sDisbb7KpvHrRmnWDyWLPnJ5HH66ivmAJaoBkabkoyi1MQSl9S01LziVDsu BQxgk5Sall+U6ppYlFMZlJqTmohdGUhlSmpOZllqkT5WY/SxmpPQxZRxu3UhU8EXror9P2Yy NzBe4Opi5OSQEDCROPXuLGMXIxeHkMAuJomZDc+ZIJxmJonVl86wQzinGCUarq5mBGlhEzCT uLvwCjOILSLgLnGiawcriM0s4CbR/+k9SxcjB4ewgLzEkbvpECUKEhf3HWGEsN0kXlyfywZS wiKgInFgRSZImFfARWJ++0SoIyaxSty69BpsPKeAvcTPDYfZQWxGATGJ76fWMEGsEpe49WQ+ E8QHAhJL9pxnhrBFJV4+/gd2jqiAvsSDrVcYIeIKEj0TpjOD7GUW0JRYv0sfYoyVxJLpL1gg bEWJKd0P2SHuEZQ4OfMJC0SruMThIztYJzBKzkKyeRbCpFlIJs1CMmkWkkkLGFlXMfJZmukZ GproGZpa6BkZGm1iBCepeVd2MF6e7nGIUYCDUYmHt45nbYwQa2JZcWXuIUYJDmYlEd6Pb9bE CPGmJFZWpRblxxeV5qQWH2KU5mBREuedU7o6RkggPbEkNTs1tSC1CCbLxMEp1cBY+ufKgTTO bce0flT/XC1y4vnqB9zpfMKtB2XzF8R/6m+xFowt+F/8YFPwOevJouLVU9KWrOxO3dp+cu3h mhy/3O7CRHYbf5ez9VOffy4zNg/P++3v/ij7WPvsA6sm677aZin++qzmkve1rzTvtt42Tw9t SbKfacOSevKm7971PFbmFgmPte8osRRnJBpqMRcVJwIA1Ubfjk4DAAA=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/doh/wLUHuS_AhuxS4RJV223kI7fZuRo>
Subject: Re: [Doh] GDPR and DoH
X-BeenThere: doh@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS Over HTTPS <doh.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/doh/>
List-Post: <mailto:doh@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 21:30:16 -0000

On 4/7/19, 9:46 AM, "Doh on behalf of Christian Huitema" <doh-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of huitema@huitema.net> wrote:
> On one hand, I hear that using 3rd party resolvers would do economic harm to the ISP and prevent them from monetizing the DNS metadata. 

[JL] The issues I and others outlined didn't include that issue, and it doesn’t from my perspective seem defensible. Rather, countering this behaviour by some ISPs was offered as one of the justifications motivating centralised DoH.

> On the other hand, I hear that switching to a user chosen DNS provider would affect the user privacy, even when that provider publicly states that it won't be collecting user specific meta data. 

[JL] I think there's still a bit more nuance here (and maybe appropriate to the ADD list), as one of the issues noted at the side meeting was that these policies address the DNS query/response layer but not necessarily the HTTP layer within which that is contained. So that may merit further exploration.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email