Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re: DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size)
Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com> Tue, 12 June 2018 01:06 UTC
Return-Path: <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>
X-Original-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: doh@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8B6130EAB for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 18:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.233
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.233 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X8c1HUC0c1OP for <doh@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 18:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from linode64.ducksong.com (linode6only.ducksong.com [IPv6:2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe6e:e8da]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8DF130DC3 for <doh@ietf.org>; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 18:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oi0-f52.google.com (mail-oi0-f52.google.com [209.85.218.52]) by linode64.ducksong.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A47DE3A03B for <doh@ietf.org>; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 21:06:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by mail-oi0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f79-v6so19599146oib.7 for <doh@ietf.org>; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 18:06:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3F4C/bH14ZMzvzn5OX5rOYl0iHIJX0f7zE04nVSlyjsNLnC1uv qDq7VoLDbTVOj+hVIvm3v8OMfdOrq7sk4BzTCus=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKWzm25acj3Dz2bRZtig/otrwqKBbxoJ4OvQwWQ/1upwbzxAMnrhTibYisbpFAomTeqvVEPXNVhRwLHNiKCDcs=
X-Received: by 2002:aca:41d6:: with SMTP id o205-v6mr847202oia.38.1528765587384; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 18:06:27 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 2002:a4a:8a32:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 18:06:26 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <23326.61211.72657.945633@gro.dd.org>
References: <20180606093212.GA23880@server.ds9a.nl> <20180608170744.GY11227@mx4.yitter.info> <03DC5A73-4BAD-45FE-AC60-C8BC82FD5690@mnot.net> <23326.43186.501116.977750@gro.dd.org> <20180611202130.GA26355@server.ds9a.nl> <23326.61211.72657.945633@gro.dd.org>
From: Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 18:06:26 -0700
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: <CAOdDvNq51daJive2OHaWTXQP619gf3xfitXzsFDGYONW9+So3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOdDvNq51daJive2OHaWTXQP619gf3xfitXzsFDGYONW9+So3g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dave Lawrence <tale@dd.org>
Cc: DoH WG <doh@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c7f273056e67799f"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/doh/zi6mkSsyE9QiZAIuAaIVl1lqVAc>
Subject: Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re: DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size)
X-BeenThere: doh@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS Over HTTPS <doh.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/doh/>
List-Post: <mailto:doh@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/doh>, <mailto:doh-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 01:06:30 -0000
On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Dave Lawrence <tale@dd.org> wrote: > > > If there were even one solid example of how this impacts the rest of > the DNS, I'd certainly be willing to reconsider my position. This is my position as well. I'm willing to make minor accommodations here based on the use of a 2 byte message framing length when using wireformat over TCP. I've concluded that is evidence that the wireformat is expected to have no single message be more than 16 bits in length (TCP routinely uses more than one message, and could have chosen a 32bit framing after all). One of the things DoH does is define a media type for the classic wireformat so it should be consistent with the classic definition of that.. unfortunately sometimes these things have to be reverse engineered and ambiguity leads to disagreement. However, the scope of that evidence is limited to a single wireformat message. Its not limited to particularly query types, or alternative media types, or multipart-schemes, etc.. And I > can certainly see that consensus of the open source DNS community > carries a lot of weight. I just want it to be clear, for the list now > and for the posterity of the archives, that if that's the way it goes > then it was not a technical decision that drove it and it comes with > its own set of consequences. > > If it is not a technical decision, then it is not consensus. RFC 7282 is pretty helpful in this regard. Obviously, there is still a generous dollop of "technical is in the eye of the beholder". But I'm hopeful we can come to a technical resolution - you're right imo to keep pushing through the general concerns to get to specifics. That makes it easier for everyone. -Patrick
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Puneet Sood
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Mateusz Jończyk
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Sara Dickinson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Daniel Stenberg
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Sara Dickinson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Daniel Stenberg
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ben Schwartz
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ben Schwartz
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Petr Špaček
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Tom Pusateri
- [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Petr Špaček
- Re: [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Tony Finch
- Re: [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Hewitt, Rory
- Re: [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Benno Overeinder
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… George Michaelson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Tony Finch
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Tony Finch
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Robert Edmonds
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Mateusz Jończyk
- [Doh] AXFR as several messages Re: [Ext] DNS Came… bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… John Dickinson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Ray Bellis
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Tony Finch
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Mark Nottingham
- [Doh] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and message size Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Ólafur Guðmundsson
- [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re: DN… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Patrick McManus
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] DNS Camel thoughts: TC and messag… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re… bert hubert
- Re: [Doh] Are we missing an architecture? (was Re… Dave Lawrence
- Re: [Doh] [Ext] Are we missing an architecture? (… Ray Bellis