Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
H Y <yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com> Tue, 06 August 2019 09:46 UTC
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From: H Y <yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 18:45:36 +0900
Message-ID: <CAA8pjUPGQcveORBS8egTWG83HzQe3+poSy9uzeb-mPefkWdbHA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mohamed Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com>, Valery Smyslov <valery@smyslov.net>, "dots@ietf.org" <dots@ietf.org>, "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/3hUKM-UymzmaB1286C4rA4spspE>
Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
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Hi, > [Med] Yes, but the current text describes the case where the DMS supplies "its blocked traffic information": > > the DDoS mitigation system can send mitigation requests > with additional hints such as its blocked traffic information to the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > orchestrator. > > So, the DMS has already done that check. [Yuhei] +1. IMO, it's no problem with sending such hints because the DMS has already blocked the traffic. Thanks, Yuhei 2019年8月6日(火) 18:20 <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>: > > Re-, > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > Envoyé : mardi 6 août 2019 11:15 > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > > Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 2:00 PM > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; Valery Smyslov > > > <valery@smyslov.net>; dots@ietf.org > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > <frank.xialiang@huawei.com> > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > > links or > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is > > > safe. > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoyé : mardi 6 août 2019 10:14 > > > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > > WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > Hi Med, > > > > > > > > No, the orchestrator is not ignoring the mitigation hints. > > > > > > [Med] Why? The text is clear the orchestrator acts as DOTS server. As > > such, it > > > can ignore/accept hints. > > > > > > It is sending > > > > filtering rules to block or rate-limit traffic to routers (last but > > > > one line in the new paragraph). > > > > > > [Med] Yes. That filtering rule is that would be applied by the DMS if it > > has > > > sufficient resources. > > > > > > The adverse impact is legitimate users whose > > > > IP addresses were spoofed > > > > cannot access the services of the target server. > > > > > > [Med] This is a check at the DMS side. This check applies independently > > of ** > > > where ** the filters are applied. This is not specific to this NEW text. > > > > If the orchestrator is sending filtering rules to block traffic, checks > > are required to ensure spoofed IP address are not conveyed by the DMS. > > [Med] Yes, but the current text describes the case where the DMS supplies "its blocked traffic information": > > the DDoS mitigation system can send mitigation requests > with additional hints such as its blocked traffic information to the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > orchestrator. > > So, the DMS has already done that check. > > If > > the orchestrator delegates the mitigation to a separate domain (recursive > > signaling), > > the attack information provided by DMS can include spoofed IP addresses > > (so the new mitigator in the separate domain learns the attack traffic is > > coming from spoofed IP addresses). > > [Med] This is not specific to this case, but applies each time there is recursive signaling. > > > > > -Tiru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Tiru > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 12:50 PM > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; Valery Smyslov > > > > > <valery@smyslov.net>; dots@ietf.org > > > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > <frank.xialiang@huawei.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > > > > links or > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tiru, > > > > > > > > > > The NEW text indicates the following: > > > > > > > > > > == > > > > > In addition to the above DDoS Orchestration, the selected DDoS > > > > > mitigation systems can return back a mitigation request to the > > > > > orchestrator as an offloading. > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > .... > > > > > the DDoS mitigation system can send mitigation requests > > > > > with additional hints such as its blocked traffic information to > > the > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > orchestrator. > > > > > == > > > > > > > > > > Which means that the DMS is blocking that traffic based on "some" > > > > > information. That same information is passed to an orchestrator so > > > > > that > > > > it can > > > > > filter the traffic. What changes is ** how/where ** filters are > > > > installed. > > > > > > > > > > Like the interface with a mitigator, the interface between the > > > > controller and > > > > > underlying routers is out of scope. > > > > > > > > > > From a DOTS perspective, the information supplied by the DMS to an > > > > > Orchestrator is considered as "additional hints" which is adhering > > > > > to > > > > RFC8612: > > > > > > > > > > == > > > > > GEN-004 Mitigation Hinting: DOTS clients may have access to > > attack > > > > > details that can be used to inform mitigation techniques. > > Example > > > > > attack details might include locally collected fingerprints > > for an > > > > > on-going attack, or anticipated or active attack focal points > > > > > based on other threat intelligence. DOTS clients MAY send > > > > > mitigation hints derived from attack details to DOTS servers, > > with > > > > > the full understanding that the DOTS server MAY ignore > > mitigation > > > > > hints. > > > > > == > > > > > > > > > > I don't think there are new security considerations induced by the > > > > > NEW > > > > text. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Konda, > > > > > > Tirumaleswar Reddy Envoyé : mardi 6 août 2019 08:52 À : Valery > > > > > > Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & > > > > > > Patent > > > > > > Dept) Objet : Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > The security implications of the new use case need to be discussed > > > > > > in the draft, please see > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/tb- > > > > > > 1ojJ6TmSmRUci6JoUeD-gB1Y > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > -Tiru > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Dots <dots-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 11:56 AM > > > > > > > To: dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > > > <frank.xialiang@huawei.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this message starts a short WGLC for > > > > > > > draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-19 to > > > > > > confirm > > > > > > > the WG consensus regarding the latest addition of a new use case > > > > > > > to the draft. > > > > > > > The WGLS will last one week and will end on Tuesday, 13 August. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Frank & Valery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Dots mailing list > > > > > > > Dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Dots mailing list > > > > > > Dots@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots -- ---------------------------------- Yuuhei HAYASHI 08065300884 yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com iehuuy_0220@docomo.ne.jp ----------------------------------
- [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Jon Shallow
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y