Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19

"Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com> Thu, 08 August 2019 07:23 UTC

Return-Path: <tirumaleswarreddy_konda@mcafee.com>
X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49757120129 for <dots@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EAeod8Ef4hGd for <dots@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from us-smtp-delivery-140.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-140.mimecast.com [216.205.24.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0DD8120105 for <dots@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:23:45 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mcafee.com; s=mimecast20190606; t=1565249024; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=CDUsH1XxywWEgXjVq9t7JPng9NUDJuuNZlTlW7bzXDQ=; b=lPaE072tgB3fb9e21Wzp/Xz/XpsRkQQHmOf/FNi/sIbsePe1jLygq9lVRgQ/7DndPO1JoU K8PNOl3xS1RDizRf4DyRGbqq71cqbWj2kecR9Fzo30Pxm0U6heAFFhTzgjrXc1kMdQMHC1 IVHQk+PgmOkeorWc6bFrl9vjPyV7KF0=
Received: from MIVWSMAILOUT1.mcafee.com (mivwsmailout1.mcafee.com [161.69.47.167]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-255-18Yh3MzjOQqFEo9CzCDycw-1; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 03:23:42 -0400
Received: from DNVEXAPP1N05.corpzone.internalzone.com (DNVEXAPP1N05.corpzone.internalzone.com [10.44.48.89]) by MIVWSMAILOUT1.mcafee.com with smtp (TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384) id 5d91_7555_ee1132e0_da87_4123_85cc_c5905e4e3c38; Thu, 08 Aug 2019 03:24:24 -0400
Received: from DNVEXAPP1N05.corpzone.internalzone.com (10.44.48.89) by DNVEXAPP1N05.corpzone.internalzone.com (10.44.48.89) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 01:23:31 -0600
Received: from DNVO365EDGE1.corpzone.internalzone.com (10.44.176.66) by DNVEXAPP1N05.corpzone.internalzone.com (10.44.48.89) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 01:23:31 -0600
Received: from NAM05-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.44.176.243) by edge.mcafee.com (10.44.176.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 01:23:30 -0600
Received: from DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (10.172.44.147) by DM5PR16MB1833.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (10.174.176.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2136.15; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 07:23:30 +0000
Received: from DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::532:f001:84e1:55ba]) by DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::532:f001:84e1:55ba%10]) with mapi id 15.20.2136.022; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 07:23:30 +0000
From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
CC: "dots@ietf.org" <dots@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAABiL4AAABR/TAAAPXKAAAAowWgAABjpEAAJBX+4AAz0QbAAABlq4A=
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 07:23:30 +0000
Message-ID: <DM5PR16MB17051210723048F26EFD7B9AEAD70@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <DM5PR16MB17050571BAD70FACA597FA6CEAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB170555606E26709FC5C54AA4EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB17050DF869BABA8B3670DC85EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705E573DE3E7482115B9FE0EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB170551C20908654A0F6428D7EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705CBD6DF992D7FB9178B29EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB17055591ECA5EC49A2947A3EEAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705C92B4A4C6E0EE0F3BBD9EAD40@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
dlp-product: dlpe-windows
dlp-version: 11.3.0.17
dlp-reaction: no-action
x-originating-ip: [103.245.47.20]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9b915c69-061b-44eb-db89-08d71bd15019
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:DM5PR16MB1833;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR16MB1833:
x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DM5PR16MB18332D5CAF94575BB5BEE2F5EAD70@DM5PR16MB1833.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-forefront-prvs: 012349AD1C
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(366004)(346002)(376002)(136003)(396003)(39860400002)(32952001)(31014005)(13464003)(189003)(199004)(186003)(4326008)(476003)(11346002)(26005)(81166006)(81156014)(8676002)(446003)(66574012)(25786009)(486006)(8936002)(6116002)(2501003)(3846002)(2906002)(6246003)(33656002)(561944003)(5660300002)(52536014)(86362001)(6916009)(6506007)(53546011)(102836004)(76176011)(74316002)(71200400001)(5024004)(478600001)(14444005)(71190400001)(256004)(66946007)(99286004)(66066001)(66556008)(66446008)(66476007)(2351001)(76116006)(316002)(64756008)(80792005)(305945005)(7696005)(6436002)(14454004)(7736002)(229853002)(966005)(53936002)(6306002)(5640700003)(9686003)(55016002)(85282002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR16MB1833; H:DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: mzHGqxRYYKUhk5Wob+QublulzyXxJjV91LLua0Zx6dc1VxytseQ5tUFsRqUnJ2UFPDjcHTNuyRE5zvGy9YS1Ap/b00kU/4PdmSbeEaLNk275lSs/EkWXTuRA2Dkc7Xo5BVbOiIExrd5kYY6ABdz3tSukHb5reAlvG8skX3XIbdd0maxswCyh5AUAFpyRBcYo8yi5f3Uw2ZwPCskom3TI4kMz6p8tPW2pAkGNYH2aA+AdRb3lTL35VPCSsff69IHA0wuYu71v5ngx6Xnluq6IkaGpUDJ0sjylEZWwTlDMUizFtYOJGhE4NCg7n/fACrCryTHO7FXNY5vnAiyhADS5uLJP/VjQYQp+FZQMYamLMKKP/U+lc5TagVVe6vcQCGvX01x/aqGqLnDKX2FnxAIJDyVQPT57uBsI7HuQMQp4rQ4=
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9b915c69-061b-44eb-db89-08d71bd15019
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Aug 2019 07:23:30.1671 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR16MB1833
X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com
X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO
X-NAI-Spam-Level:
X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15
X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1
X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6607> : inlines <7132> : streams <1829696> : uri <2880197>
X-MC-Unique: 18Yh3MzjOQqFEo9CzCDycw-1
X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/M-H7qIflEh05BDbeJ1kJuBu57Q0>
Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." <dots.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dots>, <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dots/>
List-Post: <mailto:dots@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots>, <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 07:23:59 -0000

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>;
> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 12:44 PM
> To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>;
> Cc: dots@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
> 
> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or
> open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
> safe.
> 
> Hi Tiru,
> 
> OK. I prepared a proposal at: https://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-
> cases/pull/11/files

Thanks, looks good.

Cheers,
-Tiru

> 
> Cheers,
> Med
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
> > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com]
> > Envoyé : mercredi 7 août 2019 08:35
> > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc :
> > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE: [Dots]
> > WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>;
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 7:06 PM
> > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
> > > <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>;; Valery Smyslov
> > > <valery@smyslov.net>;; dots@ietf.org
> > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)
> > > <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>;
> > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
> > >
> > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click
> > links or
> > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
> > > content is safe.
> > >
> > > Re-,
> > >
> > > Please see inline.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Med
> > >
> > > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
> > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com]
> > > > Envoyé : mardi 6 août 2019 15:08
> > > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc :
> > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE:
> > > > [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
> > > >
> > > ...
> > > > > > > [Med] The recursive case is not covered in the current text.
> > > > > > > I don't
> > > > > > think we
> > > > > > > need to elaborate on this further.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't understand why recursive case should be excluded in
> > > > > > the current text ?
> > > > >
> > > > > [Med] Because the use-case draft does not cover this: It only
> > > > > covers the
> > > > case
> > > > > of an orchestrator talking to local routers.
> > > >
> > > > My question is why shouldn't the use case draft cover this ?
> > >
> > > [Med] Isn't this captured with the following?
> > >
> > >    o  DDoS Mitigation System (DMS): A system that performs DDoS
> > >       mitigation.  The DDoS Mitigation System may be composed by a
> > >       cluster of hardware and/or software resources, but could also
> > >       involve an orchestrator that may take decisions such as
> > >       outsourcing partial or more of the mitigation to another DDoS
> > >
> > >
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > ^^
> > >       Mitigation System.
> > >
> > > And
> > >
> > >    Another typical scenario for this use case is the relation between
> > >    DDoS Mitigation Service Providers forming an overlay of DMS.  When a
> > >    DDoS Mitigation Service Provider mitigating a DDoS attack reaches it
> > >    resources capacities, it may choose to delegate the DDoS
> > > Mitigation
> > to
> > >    another DDoS Mitigation Service Provider.
> >
> > I missed above text, Thanks.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  However If orchestrator is enforcing
> > > > > > > > filtering rules on routers, it should create the
> > > > > > > > black-list rules based on the non-spoofed attacker IP
> > > > > > > > address and not use the spoofed victim IP addresses.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Med] Agree. Whether the check is done at the orchestrator
> > > > > > > or by the
> > > > > > DMS,
> > > > > > > is not a new concern. The DMS has to proceed with these
> > > > > > > checks,
> > > > anyway.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > fail to see what is NEW and SPECIFIC to the offload scenario.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In this case the check has to be done by orchestrator when
> > > > > > enforcing black-list rules not to penalize the spoofed victim
> > > > > > IP addresses and should be discussed in the new use case.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Med] This requirement has to be followed by the DMS, anyway.
> > > > > This is
> > > > not a
> > > > > new issue, Tiru.
> > > >
> > > > No, sending attack information to the DOTS server is not covered
> > > > in any of the WG documents.
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Med] The text is about "additional hints". This is all what DOTS is
> > about :-)
> >
> > Yes, but the NEW text is discussing conveying attack information for
> > the first time and it needs more details.
> >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  I don't see any other use case in
> > > > > > the specification discussing offload scenario with propagating
> > > > > > the attack information and I recommend updating the text
> > > > > > discussing the above scenarios.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Med] We don't have a similar text for the DMS case because
> > > > > mitigation
> > > > is
> > > > > out of scope. I'm expecting to follow the some rationale for the
> > > > offload.
> > > >
> > > > If mitigation is out of scope, remove the following line:
> > > > Then the orchestrator can take further actions like requesting
> > > > forwarding nodes such as routers to filter the traffic.
> > >
> > > [Med] This sentence is similar to saying the "DMS starts mitigation"
> > > but
> > with
> > > more contextualized information for a network orchestrator. The
> > > sentence uses "can", "like" which is fine for illustration purposes.
> > > As a reader,
> > I prefer
> > > to leave it.
> >
> > I suggest to add more details discussed in the thread. Anyways, will
> > leave it to you and the authors to decide, and I am not objecting to
> > progressing the draft without the proposed update.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Tiru