Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-block
"Christian M. Amsüss" <christian@amsuess.com> Tue, 16 February 2021 23:49 UTC
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 00:48:51 +0100
From: "Christian M. Amsüss" <christian@amsuess.com>
To: supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: draft-ietf-core-new-block@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org, core@ietf.org
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/RB4JPoftcOfuSescYLKn5nu1NuI>
Subject: Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new-block
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Hello, where not explicitly responded to, the updates address my points, thank you for updating the document. > > * The Q-Block options do not support stateless operation / random > > access. > > [Jon] Actually Q-Block2 does now support this following the redefinition of > the M bit usage in a previous iteration (with M=0 you can ask for any > individual block). Random access can also be in the Block1 phase; a standalone `PUT /resource Block1:5/0/6` can be used independenlty of other operations to overwrite a particular part of a resource. > [Jon] For stateless, Request-Tag is included so this should be fine. > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-stateless-06#section-4 By stateless, I was referring to the server not keeping state per body. That is the opposite of using a Request-Tag. > > * Proxying of Q-Block is limited to caching full representations. > > > > (The latter might be mitigated by additional text around caching, but > > I doubt it's worth the effort given it's not part of the use case). > > [Jon] I am not entirely convinced that Block1/2 have got the caching by > block properly sorted out - e.g. what happens when different clients make > requests with different SZX and Block2 is part of the cache key. The > limiting to caching full representations is there so that a new can of worms > is not opened up. The Block options are not part of the cache key -- they are not-safe-to-forward and thus come with rules as to the cache behavior, rather than havign a cache-key property. The behavior is sorted out: If an earlier client requested, say, block2:0//6 (first 1KiB), then while that is fresh, it may be used to serve any request for smaller chunks (say, block2:1//5 for bytes 512-1024). The same is true in the other direction: A proxy may use its cached 3x256 bytes (even exceeding the Max-Age), ask the server for the 4th 256 byte block (which by its ETag confirms the others are still good), and then serve them combined as a 1KiB response. Thus, I think these two points (Incomplete support for random access, and block-by-block proxying) still stand to be added to the considerations. To give you background on why I'm so picky about this list: People *will* still get the initial impression that this is the later-and-greater version, and for the outlined purposes it is, but if we don't set the expectations right here, there will be disappointment. BR c -- To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers. -- Bene Gesserit axiom
- [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core-new… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Christian Amsüss
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Christian M. Amsüss
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Christian Amsüss
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Christian M. Amsüss
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Christian M. Amsüss
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… Christian Amsüss
- Re: [Dots] [core] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-core… supjps-ietf