Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
<mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> Thu, 08 August 2019 07:14 UTC
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From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
CC: "dots@ietf.org" <dots@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
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Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 07:14:10 +0000
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References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <DM5PR16MB17050571BAD70FACA597FA6CEAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB170555606E26709FC5C54AA4EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB17050DF869BABA8B3670DC85EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705E573DE3E7482115B9FE0EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB170551C20908654A0F6428D7EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705CBD6DF992D7FB9178B29EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB17055591ECA5EC49A2947A3EEAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705C92B4A4C6E0EE0F3BBD9EAD40@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
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Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
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Hi Tiru, OK. I prepared a proposal at: https://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-cases/pull/11/files Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > Envoyé : mercredi 7 août 2019 08:35 > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 7:06 PM > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; Valery Smyslov > > <valery@smyslov.net>; dots@ietf.org > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > <frank.xialiang@huawei.com> > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > links or > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is > > safe. > > > > Re-, > > > > Please see inline. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > Envoyé : mardi 6 août 2019 15:08 > > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > ... > > > > > > [Med] The recursive case is not covered in the current text. I > > > > > > don't > > > > > think we > > > > > > need to elaborate on this further. > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand why recursive case should be excluded in the > > > > > current text ? > > > > > > > > [Med] Because the use-case draft does not cover this: It only covers > > > > the > > > case > > > > of an orchestrator talking to local routers. > > > > > > My question is why shouldn't the use case draft cover this ? > > > > [Med] Isn't this captured with the following? > > > > o DDoS Mitigation System (DMS): A system that performs DDoS > > mitigation. The DDoS Mitigation System may be composed by a > > cluster of hardware and/or software resources, but could also > > involve an orchestrator that may take decisions such as > > outsourcing partial or more of the mitigation to another DDoS > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ^^ > > Mitigation System. > > > > And > > > > Another typical scenario for this use case is the relation between > > DDoS Mitigation Service Providers forming an overlay of DMS. When a > > DDoS Mitigation Service Provider mitigating a DDoS attack reaches it > > resources capacities, it may choose to delegate the DDoS Mitigation > to > > another DDoS Mitigation Service Provider. > > I missed above text, Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However If orchestrator is enforcing > > > > > > > filtering rules on routers, it should create the black-list > > > > > > > rules based on the non-spoofed attacker IP address and not use > > > > > > > the spoofed victim IP addresses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Agree. Whether the check is done at the orchestrator or by > > > > > > the > > > > > DMS, > > > > > > is not a new concern. The DMS has to proceed with these checks, > > > anyway. > > > > > I > > > > > > fail to see what is NEW and SPECIFIC to the offload scenario. > > > > > > > > > > In this case the check has to be done by orchestrator when > > > > > enforcing black-list rules not to penalize the spoofed victim IP > > > > > addresses and should be discussed in the new use case. > > > > > > > > [Med] This requirement has to be followed by the DMS, anyway. This > > > > is > > > not a > > > > new issue, Tiru. > > > > > > No, sending attack information to the DOTS server is not covered in > > > any of the WG documents. > > > > > > > [Med] The text is about "additional hints". This is all what DOTS is > about :-) > > Yes, but the NEW text is discussing conveying attack information for the > first time and it needs more details. > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see any other use case in > > > > > the specification discussing offload scenario with propagating the > > > > > attack information and I recommend updating the text discussing > > > > > the above scenarios. > > > > > > > > [Med] We don't have a similar text for the DMS case because > > > > mitigation > > > is > > > > out of scope. I'm expecting to follow the some rationale for the > > > offload. > > > > > > If mitigation is out of scope, remove the following line: > > > Then the orchestrator can take further actions like requesting > > > forwarding nodes such as routers to filter the traffic. > > > > [Med] This sentence is similar to saying the "DMS starts mitigation" but > with > > more contextualized information for a network orchestrator. The sentence > > uses "can", "like" which is fine for illustration purposes. As a reader, > I prefer > > to leave it. > > I suggest to add more details discussed in the thread. Anyways, will leave > it to you and the authors to decide, and I am not objecting to progressing > the draft > without the proposed update. > > Cheers, > -Tiru
- [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Jon Shallow
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y