Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
H Y <yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com> Thu, 15 August 2019 12:25 UTC
Return-Path: <yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3144912004A for <dots@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id otdYbzQL1HLo for <dots@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F77B120043 for <dots@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id u15so2080307ljl.3 for <dots@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:19 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vGwEzpoZ1NZp2PTw0lf5cUcxNJeOQATgiPxI1Z3lKEo=; b=CN2dJ8x5m0M4bi5pa2RDAIVMktUYsLnWCwMKud+L45IeSWeaIqKHzM/hOYghrOiQSi Y+kwRAoJuXdm0Xw79t1qG1vkTCfGrAp/yGd9+W5GQyf/HHtq3f8m1zY9+DgysWgMuhkM 5u4/oeNGb2sVlgux4kHu5+09UaMO5QBo8JRXbmX2hKKAqSagx1gYS63mXedwrgJC4HJO uK+GlF17ta0U0jvjOdT8mZeN1cGwoz2rsrhM8pqZximo7Vet/5TZtIqvlHBhKZGK0wWA r9d2BfW6q3KjieRD6JHV93BbU0upX5naIMsACLm//RwmlTHBOVFQPpMFPPl4+RAC3+VN FKBg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vGwEzpoZ1NZp2PTw0lf5cUcxNJeOQATgiPxI1Z3lKEo=; b=gqL+tFl2xUttzgLss4WhhtPiZQoQC9TVEyr4TFNWER37MmRK9xsBg7hs9Qb2PPrjyR VbqNcm+8zBzvcufClEXXwex593p+hjk6bbIIr7d/ZVArc+NaDRQzPZ6KutwUvkam4aF6 Bq+wUxprpiXR1FlYoNLeQRP9GxfVBHiLJj6k3KFl3xLS9/aAFV91zI9dQhvT91hZfb4z ueheO7Upzefqm5LHGjTp6If1Q6AGxb2i3WMBQNAnoXQam0PWLCicKqZe7Bx3suHd5WR2 TbrgSjDq7J7fTbTq53TzaE567sgZy15MZMoqASp6svxszR+t5YZbUGZiOpOXhuwihiOG jN+Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXtSk4KW4caXIm5jXN5XLIFjRxQtDT2IxX4cSnA8xfUY/1/XX+5 5Bm3YrqOnnJ/w22EAxzyZ/XG1VD5Xuf1uDuKjbQ=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzXIK5AyqWjXRhk1IrqJaMkPAnzkgDRMGha6RHoRhCyJtS4rdV5c2xL6O2/XfrPEVCyGehpcwsPVjWFdzQ13KQ=
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8559:: with SMTP id u25mr2532051ljj.224.1565871917996; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <DM5PR16MB17050571BAD70FACA597FA6CEAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB170555606E26709FC5C54AA4EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB17050DF869BABA8B3670DC85EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705E573DE3E7482115B9FE0EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB170551C20908654A0F6428D7EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705CBD6DF992D7FB9178B29EAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB17055591ECA5EC49A2947A3EEAD50@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <DM5PR16MB1705C92B4A4C6E0EE0F3BBD9EAD40@DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
From: H Y <yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 21:25:04 +0900
Message-ID: <CAA8pjUPYqHT3pQ3vD0Q6OpH0MWNm8bgwL+VB4cRTFfnUFdN0Qw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mohamed Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "dots@ietf.org" <dots@ietf.org>
Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/k3pKa6b7gB9OcGWuCQT1NQpm0Mw>
Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19
X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." <dots.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dots>, <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dots/>
List-Post: <mailto:dots@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots>, <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 12:25:23 -0000
Hi, > OK. I prepared a proposal at: https://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-cases/pull/11/files Thank you for the proposal. I agree with it too. Thanks, Yuhei 2019年8月8日(木) 16:14 <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>: > > Hi Tiru, > > OK. I prepared a proposal at: https://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-cases/pull/11/files > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > Envoyé : mercredi 7 août 2019 08:35 > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > > Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 7:06 PM > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; Valery Smyslov > > > <valery@smyslov.net>; dots@ietf.org > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > <frank.xialiang@huawei.com> > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > > links or > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is > > > safe. > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoyé : mardi 6 août 2019 15:08 > > > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > > WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > [Med] The recursive case is not covered in the current text. I > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > think we > > > > > > > need to elaborate on this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand why recursive case should be excluded in the > > > > > > current text ? > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Because the use-case draft does not cover this: It only covers > > > > > the > > > > case > > > > > of an orchestrator talking to local routers. > > > > > > > > My question is why shouldn't the use case draft cover this ? > > > > > > [Med] Isn't this captured with the following? > > > > > > o DDoS Mitigation System (DMS): A system that performs DDoS > > > mitigation. The DDoS Mitigation System may be composed by a > > > cluster of hardware and/or software resources, but could also > > > involve an orchestrator that may take decisions such as > > > outsourcing partial or more of the mitigation to another DDoS > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > ^^ > > > Mitigation System. > > > > > > And > > > > > > Another typical scenario for this use case is the relation between > > > DDoS Mitigation Service Providers forming an overlay of DMS. When a > > > DDoS Mitigation Service Provider mitigating a DDoS attack reaches it > > > resources capacities, it may choose to delegate the DDoS Mitigation > > to > > > another DDoS Mitigation Service Provider. > > > > I missed above text, Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However If orchestrator is enforcing > > > > > > > > filtering rules on routers, it should create the black-list > > > > > > > > rules based on the non-spoofed attacker IP address and not use > > > > > > > > the spoofed victim IP addresses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Agree. Whether the check is done at the orchestrator or by > > > > > > > the > > > > > > DMS, > > > > > > > is not a new concern. The DMS has to proceed with these checks, > > > > anyway. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > fail to see what is NEW and SPECIFIC to the offload scenario. > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the check has to be done by orchestrator when > > > > > > enforcing black-list rules not to penalize the spoofed victim IP > > > > > > addresses and should be discussed in the new use case. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] This requirement has to be followed by the DMS, anyway. This > > > > > is > > > > not a > > > > > new issue, Tiru. > > > > > > > > No, sending attack information to the DOTS server is not covered in > > > > any of the WG documents. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] The text is about "additional hints". This is all what DOTS is > > about :-) > > > > Yes, but the NEW text is discussing conveying attack information for the > > first time and it needs more details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see any other use case in > > > > > > the specification discussing offload scenario with propagating the > > > > > > attack information and I recommend updating the text discussing > > > > > > the above scenarios. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] We don't have a similar text for the DMS case because > > > > > mitigation > > > > is > > > > > out of scope. I'm expecting to follow the some rationale for the > > > > offload. > > > > > > > > If mitigation is out of scope, remove the following line: > > > > Then the orchestrator can take further actions like requesting > > > > forwarding nodes such as routers to filter the traffic. > > > > > > [Med] This sentence is similar to saying the "DMS starts mitigation" but > > with > > > more contextualized information for a network orchestrator. The sentence > > > uses "can", "like" which is fine for illustration purposes. As a reader, > > I prefer > > > to leave it. > > > > I suggest to add more details discussed in the thread. Anyways, will leave > > it to you and the authors to decide, and I am not objecting to progressing > > the draft > > without the proposed update. > > > > Cheers, > > -Tiru > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots -- ---------------------------------- Yuuhei HAYASHI 08065300884 yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com iehuuy_0220@docomo.ne.jp ----------------------------------
- [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Jon Shallow
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Valery Smyslov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 H Y