Re: [Dots] Target-Attack-type expansion: more discussion

Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> Mon, 06 May 2019 09:19 UTC

Return-Path: <ximaera@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81B9D120105 for <dots@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 6 May 2019 02:19:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.988
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IO-92AdQ1T2v for <dots@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 6 May 2019 02:19:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yw1-xc2e.google.com (mail-yw1-xc2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 331F1120077 for <dots@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 May 2019 02:19:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yw1-xc2e.google.com with SMTP id o65so8041895ywd.8 for <dots@ietf.org>; Mon, 06 May 2019 02:19:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oaI3gKkqv/XSBK/0C0sTVFt53QdDiGDik9YROvXFzN4=; b=o2fQX143PhzS4sldglqxAZcvNoNHdlV/tkBB4RT6lEOZEDjBJ0l2d9UrDQQ92IFaKl jdldM9fh4bWGhzJOigOk+2jp49c6OTkf4+EebCf2OdXCMRugfel3IirnhQ7G/4Eid83L bSBOtZZjfplwCboaZEE1B7Ff1sxFuU2p+szMKO0t5C034yi/9Sg4q/hPpdLBwBLaFjhc IEBOQ7KvCASqCv2MwkvJniw5P/u4HTvaogf/2D+AfTlUqFhFTfYvUwPwWiJhxgxXzhLD t4PpJClkPk0+mYYNwSYtsNVW0OB7CummOsFvGqouASXBLVmgj3iq7W/QDD4Fz/iyQ9cq aJ+g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oaI3gKkqv/XSBK/0C0sTVFt53QdDiGDik9YROvXFzN4=; b=lTz4qJCkGXRRUrGxEPcJtAtBaDs0B1RwgEgwHVw1t3/JXJFKAa1cgG0H2eKM7SGmBh blZYaI8peURX07lrn2XLtA12fLIR2URpYgHpzfq4sp/tsVob2xR4uMVItR3YaR4VK3da 8Uc2kpYp6AiiAdx2EE/jwXksnQRFHf+dsU93mllmQMEQWaBkX7unQ0ohA/viDhFhXM7F Nx2/Lju741U5elCCkMgHvAcqDpkLTUy/gTTZQKvdQ9PX6hW6aDK8jV0MhwB+6OOxnXAj dQmqVg502WwF5j4MI6dIBQLKTdojthbm7RNqa+AxkNBr7+qn3E72NRJ2kE5xduksCB5n QRWg==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWw0gGTZRCpSE2zrrRcj59V5pdYHnP5FJk54gBgxGumBqPhRRgi KIx/TRjR+rnx9XANDUldR4p0BN4k65jLb0rtSs3aOg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzccRBV5BSMlG5eiUEZUTK4NHyFGJBj7SUdyNeYSteIdFVr/jSYZXmF3Wt8cs1aeErVju8vNTDwfbdzKgAyr30=
X-Received: by 2002:a81:351:: with SMTP id 78mr1994825ywd.323.1557134346123; Mon, 06 May 2019 02:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <2afa5c9df0626fd-00007.Richmail.00004070460264152429@chinamobile.com> <CALZ3u+YTx2b=QMTM_UzgX254cgcgAWYxnwA=-VwHhD03ygragw@mail.gmail.com> <2019050616564984104217@chinamobile.com>
In-Reply-To: <2019050616564984104217@chinamobile.com>
From: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 12:18:54 +0300
Message-ID: <CALZ3u+Y43hR-CkyD6sjziiJEi3TVHJ7mNEgmUS-GpLGow8jxew@mail.gmail.com>
To: 陈美玲 <chenmeiling@chinamobile.com>
Cc: dots <dots@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000917fa40588349779"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/kDprEw-U-Z_s2Ek2MsQBsW5ac8U>
Subject: Re: [Dots] Target-Attack-type expansion: more discussion
X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." <dots.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dots>, <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dots/>
List-Post: <mailto:dots@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots>, <mailto:dots-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 09:19:08 -0000

On Mon, May 6, 2019, 11:57 AM MeiLing Chen <chenmeiling@chinamobile.com>
wrote:

> Not mean the affected layer, but at the exploited protocol layer.
>
>
a) Then the Memcached reflection would be layer 7, as the Memcached ASCII
protocol belongs to the application layer;
b) Honestly, I don't see how the "exploited protocol layer" could be of
*any* use for mitigation.

it is still necessary to unify the types of classified attacks.
>
>
Not only it is operationally close to impossible in the foreseeable
future,  it it is also really of questionable use.  You would still need a
device on your network which would be responsible for handling "the rest"
of DDoS attacks: not falling under any known type, 0-day, etc.

IMO the best you could *possibly* achieve is the classification similar to
what anti-virus vendors provide ("Win32/Conficker.A"-style, you know), but
even then no one tries to handle different malware with multiple anti-virus
installations on the same machine.  This architecture wouldn't really fly.

--
Töma

>