Re: [Driu] Resolverless DNS Side Meeting in Montreal

Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com> Tue, 10 July 2018 03:06 UTC

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From: Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 23:06:26 -0400
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To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>, Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@aclu.org>, DoH WG <doh@ietf.org>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, dnsop <dnsop@ietf.org>, driu@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Driu] Resolverless DNS Side Meeting in Montreal
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this is essentially a bar bof - though lacking in a bar and I'm fond of
more professional terms so I call it a side meeting. It has no standing. If
you're interested then please come, if you're not or are conflicted then
you're missing anything process wise.

Someday it might graduate to becoming a bof - but I would never put a bof
forward that didn't have a proposal I was comfortable with. This is indeed
a side meeting for anyone interested to see if there is a shared vision for
what such a proposal might look like.

Its not in scope for any wg as there isn't a proposal. Its quite possible
that it might have multiple outcomes which are in scope for multiple
application groups; I've tried to cc the likely suspects here.  But that is
presupposing outcomes.

-P



On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>; wrote:

> This sounds an awful lot like an unapproved bof. The reason we don’t do
> those is that they tend to make it hard for people to participate. Why
> isn’t this in scope for dnsop?
>
> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 10:49 PM Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>;
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am organizing an ad-hoc Side Meeting regarding 'Resolverless DNS' in
>> Montreal.
>>
>> We have often talked about the benefits and concerns of DNS information
>> obtained from sources that are, shall we say, less globally trusted than a
>> recursive a resolver. The central use case is DoH when pushed from an
>> endpoint that isn't a recursive resolver but there have been other
>> proposals.
>>
>> For example www.example.com pushes you a AAAA record for img1.example.com.
>> Should you use it? What if it is for img1.img-example.com ? Do the
>> relationship between these domains matter? What kind of relationship (i.e.
>> it could be a domain relationship, or in the context of a browser it might
>> be a first-party tab like relationship, etc..)? What are the implications
>> of poison? Trackers? Privacy of requests never made? Speed? Competitive
>> shenanigans or DoS attacks?
>>
>> This was out of scope for DoH.
>>
>> *We'll do the meeting over 1 hour in the Dorchester room from 16:30 to
>> 17:30 on Monday July 16th.*
>>
>> This is a meeting of interested folks looking to see if we can agree on
>> next steps - we're not going to work out the details (nor should a side
>> meeting try and do so). so we'll have a tight agenda that I suggest
>> organizaing as follows:
>>
>> 1] What forms of transport could be in scope? HTTP/2 push is one such
>> vector, but I've heard others. Spray paint for example.
>>
>> 2] What needs to be considered when using such data? (signatures? scope?
>> etc?)
>>
>> 3] Who are the stakeholders for 1 + 2?
>>
>> 4] Is there enough interest to explore further? Next steps as output
>>
>> I hope you can come!
>>
>> -Patrick
>>
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>