Re: [Driu] [DNSOP] [Doh] Resolverless DNS Side Meeting in Montreal

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Tue, 10 July 2018 16:42 UTC

Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: driu@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: driu@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1557A131016 for <driu@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:42:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.909
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5G3GM9oX1P4D for <driu@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-it0-x22d.google.com (mail-it0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E25C12F1A5 for <driu@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-it0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id v71-v6so21708364itb.3 for <driu@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=68SDTK5YT/MU8mHuyvullKIGlLi4GxVmx9CuRJwFs9w=; b=FKty7O+cCbpyj1DKFWSyHK1r4ThoGd5ivfSPOkt6uwmZkjIviLF7EOCMe5UKH6aTke 6LLahAaev8zV+dlu8HNcxuHnGXVqNptOPuBeSBMtvOwF1W9tQc7ffDR7ZPYqX1Rk0c8r JYCnUn/+B3wjB6WtkBg1yLeindRi0ilp57mXWsnDk2fwi1/1H4rrXJNPAFktMVcpI6Nw fpuXZUNx7cCAhWrcX9+weRTEhQra6F42j65x1lsPtp4Pquf1EAvpcnACVNqMyZ8JaoLh BoJ7mloXe/CywbUZk9nF1rub/C921URHKUNoNBAqEGjCXnFkuppLlJY/sLhyKdUpckHc S+pA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=68SDTK5YT/MU8mHuyvullKIGlLi4GxVmx9CuRJwFs9w=; b=JAnbAhM22VeIZ2D2C7Kl2+iXrmH0DZZ9uvdZEuOnQlG4c08tphwLBr89OZRxQ+NNG9 m69j4f5iteNvxrNqnoVD6zwSlUQFP7jVvcq6usDKjHMykMpsDkn+nXx7H/yU74PPtIPT J/uS5wKu6UU5sIXi742SMXDceUkpAHojnbt8btSNuRfSMfakr7jm3whkGRwrBSnWLHuN 8CU38iCHlRsqihyf9DtFUKsKN8K2bLM2DsAzslLasv0As55967U3d8HgEaJscKzmPtIV yszKHd5yK0VcZbMvLvHtEFXJAycrtoXqjt3EmEsY/4M127XVJmg/VxeZgh5UPAkO3V9S F19w==
X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E32c9Hja9yQGj0gFrAZP47uqB1TxNPNb7PKhsgcCp/FAhKZ1oDM rXDbdWD9IU+9QOz5KVGWeqLb+2TAq4PM/7XPXYhxoA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpf6z3DMBuvAVT7AYW1h39XcgfMKTCLyVLRWu/yNjkIqd4kv/r72Hw65iKKmpzN/HFMrBVLWRZvx42eTrv997qY=
X-Received: by 2002:a02:b70b:: with SMTP id g11-v6mr21785562jam.34.1531240946430; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 2002:a4f:5f86:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAJhMdTOZtOpF_aK-ZzP0DfkDMcAtTKFLdSpKkrSPvP1cOgnOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <m1fcoe5-0000GuC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <alpine.LRH.2.21.1807101056140.5219@bofh.nohats.ca> <4a845808-5348-d6e4-dda2-59aaf0e85c14@nostrum.com> <3DF5A66C-CCBF-4116-A1FC-35CF8E05808B@hopcount.ca> <e1675184-f0bc-670d-3db1-b99a9daf1657@nostrum.com> <CAJhMdTOZtOpF_aK-ZzP0DfkDMcAtTKFLdSpKkrSPvP1cOgnOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:41:46 -0400
Message-ID: <CAPt1N1=Xky1MjmbzdnR2zxcVbD3mz0O3Qo_uEVK96uMLUrwu8g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca>
Cc: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, DoH WG <doh@ietf.org>, driu@ietf.org, dnsop WG <dnsop@ietf.org>, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>, Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>, Philip Homburg <pch-dnsop-3@u-1.phicoh.com>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ad820b0570a7d050"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/driu/jk5TRuR1H3aobkUYmfZKL5tt6tA>
Subject: Re: [Driu] [DNSOP] [Doh] Resolverless DNS Side Meeting in Montreal
X-BeenThere: driu@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: "DNS Resolver Identification and Use \(DRIU\)." <driu.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/driu>, <mailto:driu-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/driu/>
List-Post: <mailto:driu@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:driu-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/driu>, <mailto:driu-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:42:30 -0000

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Joe Abley <jabley@hopcount.ca> wrote:

> > But this is really equivalent in just about every important way to
> sending the normal <img src="https://example.com/img/f.jpg"> along with a
> pushed DNS record that indicates that "example.com" resolves to
> "192.0.2.1" -- and this latter thing is (to my understanding, at least) in
> scope of the conversation that Patrick is proposing to have.
>
> My question is why you would involve the DNS at all if all the
> performance-based resolution decisions can be made without it. You're
> just adding cost and complexity without benefit


The ip= modifier would be a great way to arrange for something to look like
it came from a different source than its actual source.   I'm sure there's
an attack surface in there somewhere.