Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do...
Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> Wed, 02 April 2014 17:34 UTC
Return-Path: <tytso@thunk.org>
X-Original-To: dsfjdssdfsd@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dsfjdssdfsd@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560051A032D for <dsfjdssdfsd@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 10:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.801
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ORCzawV8RyyT for <dsfjdssdfsd@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 10:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from imap.thunk.org (imap.thunk.org [IPv6:2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe96:be03]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB0B1A0242 for <dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org>; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 10:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from root (helo=closure.thunk.org) by imap.thunk.org with local-esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <tytso@thunk.org>) id 1WVP3V-00027V-7m; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:34:29 +0000
Received: by closure.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 7771F5803BC; Wed, 2 Apr 2014 13:34:26 -0400 (EDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=thunk.org; s=mail; t=1396460066; bh=Dx/KuRfoH8CpDCKbHdseJIcOCDVnQbIt1jUn0EcM/KM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=0w65It2OYHksnlmoyrgSO9N48LOt5mn+NeQyvcKTLy8nQq4+Yq1u6DI2xGZJO4rFp f6bSs6S9ElY85Mdwu6BjUirThjl+b9mTpNUUlWo2Ut1CP7d5Z0ak1JTH5xVJY7Rubl 4ykP8lCgbTli0j/J7f9R1IcyC0Sz6d6LtIjUfEkU=
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:34:26 -0400
From: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
To: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Message-ID: <20140402173426.GI6901@thunk.org>
References: <533AF317.5070901@cs.tcd.ie> <CACXcFm=ts6JWuW+pQtaqZ720QDxnEa22UZW2NiBYMgCCV7MPuw@mail.gmail.com> <CAF4+nEF8N5C7zmGh5TBnp29zP1Fi2PMzoU4x4EEH8hY82PnS0w@mail.gmail.com> <20140402163354.GG6901@thunk.org> <2804DA89-211B-4876-A773-A17D6AE8463F@vpnc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <2804DA89-211B-4876-A773-A17D6AE8463F@vpnc.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: <locally generated>
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: tytso@thunk.org
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on imap.thunk.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dsfjdssdfsd/8st-iCt_xlFCk8ekS1s6k30EjEU
Cc: "dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org" <dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do...
X-BeenThere: dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "The dsfjdssdfsd list provides a venue for discussion of randomness in IETF protocols, for example related to updating RFC 4086." <dsfjdssdfsd.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dsfjdssdfsd>, <mailto:dsfjdssdfsd-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dsfjdssdfsd/>
List-Post: <mailto:dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dsfjdssdfsd-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dsfjdssdfsd>, <mailto:dsfjdssdfsd-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:34:58 -0000
On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 10:02:24AM -0700, Paul Hoffman wrote: > > Personally, I have a strong hesitation of a BCP using phrases like > "a few bits of entropy" if we can't measure them and if we don't > even know if they exist. One of the problems is that there is a lot of nuance which is required. For example, if you can't change the hardware, on a mobile device, one of the few sources of unpredictability might be the radio strength --- if you grab this in early boot and if you know that the values aren't being fed via centralized logging scheme. It's not really _entropy_ per se, but if you are assuming that someone sitting in Fort Meade won't know whether your cell phone is in your knapsack under the steel desk, or on top of the desk, it probably does add a certain amount of protection. Ditto grabbing touch screen information; sure, if someone has a camera surveilling you, it might not have much unpredictabiliy, but it's still probably a good thing to mix into your entropy pool. And if we try to tell people that if you can't do anything at all which is True Entropy (tm), you might as well go home, then people might just do that. - Ted
- [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Stephen Farrell
- [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... =JeffH
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Sandy Harris
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Donald Eastlake
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Watson Ladd
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Alexandre Anzala-Yamajako
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... travis+ml-dsfjdssdfsd
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... travis+ml-dsfjdssdfsd
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... travis+ml-dsfjdssdfsd
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Donald Eastlake
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... travis+ml-dsfjdssdfsd
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Dan Harkins
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Alexandre Carmel-Veilleux
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Theodore Ts'o
- [dsfjdssdfsd] what not to do... Sandy Harris