Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discussions on here?

"Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com> Fri, 24 January 2014 04:52 UTC

Return-Path: <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-Original-To: dsfjdssdfsd@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dsfjdssdfsd@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E873E1A0132 for <dsfjdssdfsd@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:52:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TwaaFEJ4Ads8 for <dsfjdssdfsd@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from hoemail1.alcatel.com (hoemail1.alcatel.com [192.160.6.148]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B991A00FB for <dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org>; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-122.lucent.com [135.239.2.122]) by hoemail1.alcatel.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id s0O4qofl021262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Jan 2014 22:52:52 -0600 (CST)
Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s0O4qnf4007188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:52:49 +0100
Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.122]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 24 Jan 2014 05:52:49 +0100
From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kriszti=E1n_Pint=E9r?= <pinterkr@gmail.com>, Michael Hammer <michael.hammer@yaanatech.com>
Thread-Topic: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discussions on here?
Thread-Index: AQHPGHtZhPrq+TLITk+z92rlLgyyZZqSt4EAgAAeVoCAAHlrgA==
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 04:52:48 +0000
Message-ID: <CF07B027.A564E%wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <52DD996F.3040708@cs.tcd.ie> <CAF4+nEHEWaSr3HMuGtQ=vQzuuhkTo2uNpedUTNgmT5NsWRsTfA@mail.gmail.com> <30316745-8091-46AD-95A1-407757489FF9@vpnc.org> <1737731959.20140122185149@gmail.com> <03f201cf17ee$e34ccbf0$a9e663d0$@hosed.org> <15541579.20140123214020@gmail.com> <00C069FD01E0324C9FFCADF539701DB3BBF18E51@sc9-ex2k10mb1.corp.yaanatech.com> <204592464.20140123233807@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <204592464.20140123233807@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030
x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-ID: <1350802837CFFC40AEF179F88CF59A9F@exchange.lucent.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org" <dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org>, "ietf@hosed.org" <ietf@hosed.org>
Subject: Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discussions on here?
X-BeenThere: dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "The dsfjdssdfsd list provides a venue for discussion of randomness in IETF protocols, for example related to updating RFC 4086." <dsfjdssdfsd.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dsfjdssdfsd>, <mailto:dsfjdssdfsd-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dsfjdssdfsd/>
List-Post: <mailto:dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dsfjdssdfsd-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dsfjdssdfsd>, <mailto:dsfjdssdfsd-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 04:52:57 -0000

ok

On 23/01/14 23:38, "Krisztián Pintér" <pinterkr@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Michael Hammer (at Thursday, January 23, 2014, 9:49:32 PM):
>> This may get off-topic, but are there good software tools for testing
>> entropy, 
>> that could help applications determine if the underlying system is
>>giving
>> them good input?
>
>disclaimer: i'm no expert, it is just what i gathered. (i'm pretty
>much interested in randomness.)
>
>short answer: no
>
>long answer: in some situations yes. if you are handed a bunch of
>data, all you can do is to try different techniques to put an upper
>limit on the entropy. for example you can calculate the shannon
>entropy assuming independent bits. then you can hypothesize some
>interdependence, and see if you can compress the data. you can apply
>different lossless compression methods. the better compression you
>find puts an upper limit on the entropy. but never a lower limit.
>
>you can only do better if you have an idea about the process that
>created the data. for example you might assume that it is mostly
>thermal noise. you can assume that thermal noise has some frequency
>distribution, or energy or whatever, etc. within this assumption, you
>can determine the entropy content by measurements. but at this point,
>you are pretty much prone to two errors: 1, what if your assumption is
>wrong and 2, what if your physical model overestimates the
>unpredictability of the given system. example for the former: the
>signal might be largely controllable by an external EM interference,
>and then you measure not noise, but attacker controlled data. example
>for the latter: a smartass scientist might come up with a better
>physical model for thermal noise.
>
>it is also important to note that entropy is observer dependent. we
>actually talk about the entropy as seen by the attacker. but it is not
>straightforward to assess what is actually visible to an attacker and
>what is not. observation methods improve with time.
>
>_______________________________________________
>dsfjdssdfsd mailing list
>dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dsfjdssdfsd