Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discussions on here?
"Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com> Fri, 24 January 2014 04:52 UTC
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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Krisztián Pintér <pinterkr@gmail.com>, Michael Hammer <michael.hammer@yaanatech.com>
Thread-Topic: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discussions on here?
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 04:52:48 +0000
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Cc: "dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org" <dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org>, "ietf@hosed.org" <ietf@hosed.org>
Subject: Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discussions on here?
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ok On 23/01/14 23:38, "Krisztián Pintér" <pinterkr@gmail.com> wrote: > >Michael Hammer (at Thursday, January 23, 2014, 9:49:32 PM): >> This may get off-topic, but are there good software tools for testing >> entropy, >> that could help applications determine if the underlying system is >>giving >> them good input? > >disclaimer: i'm no expert, it is just what i gathered. (i'm pretty >much interested in randomness.) > >short answer: no > >long answer: in some situations yes. if you are handed a bunch of >data, all you can do is to try different techniques to put an upper >limit on the entropy. for example you can calculate the shannon >entropy assuming independent bits. then you can hypothesize some >interdependence, and see if you can compress the data. you can apply >different lossless compression methods. the better compression you >find puts an upper limit on the entropy. but never a lower limit. > >you can only do better if you have an idea about the process that >created the data. for example you might assume that it is mostly >thermal noise. you can assume that thermal noise has some frequency >distribution, or energy or whatever, etc. within this assumption, you >can determine the entropy content by measurements. but at this point, >you are pretty much prone to two errors: 1, what if your assumption is >wrong and 2, what if your physical model overestimates the >unpredictability of the given system. example for the former: the >signal might be largely controllable by an external EM interference, >and then you measure not noise, but attacker controlled data. example >for the latter: a smartass scientist might come up with a better >physical model for thermal noise. > >it is also important to note that entropy is observer dependent. we >actually talk about the entropy as seen by the attacker. but it is not >straightforward to assess what is actually visible to an attacker and >what is not. observation methods improve with time. > >_______________________________________________ >dsfjdssdfsd mailing list >dsfjdssdfsd@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dsfjdssdfsd
- [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discussions… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Dan Harkins
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Dan Harkins
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Krisztián Pintér
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Dan Harkins
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Dan Harkins
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Dan Harkins
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Francis Dupont
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Francis Dupont
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Dan Harkins
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… ietf
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Francis Dupont
- [dsfjdssdfsd] evaluating stuff (was: Re: Any plan… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] evaluating stuff (was: Re: Any … ietf
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] evaluating stuff (was: Re: Any … Jon Green
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] evaluating stuff (was: Re: Any … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Krisztián Pintér
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Michael Hammer
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Krisztián Pintér
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Michael Hammer
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Krisztián Pintér
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Dan Harkins
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Michael Hammer
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Michael Hammer
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Krisztián Pintér
- Re: [dsfjdssdfsd] Any plans for drafts or discuss… Paul Hoffman