Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items
Guangqing Deng <dgq2011@gmail.com> Mon, 27 August 2012 06:30 UTC
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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:30:09 +0800
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From: Guangqing Deng <dgq2011@gmail.com>
To: Beth Plale <plale@cs.indiana.edu>
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Subject: Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items
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2012/8/27 Beth Plale <plale@cs.indiana.edu> > This is an important conversation. The issues with data identification > are surfacing in science because science data is at multiple levels of > granularity (e.g., national, state, metro area, street) and giving proper > credit to data creators is of burgeoning important in the sciences. > Commercial video can have issues of granularity but once copyright issues > are resolved, ownership is clear. The issue of ownership/attribution is > driving the urgency to come up with solutions to the data set identifier > problem. > > I see interoperability across ID schemes as something that IETF can help > us think about and propose a solution to. We're not going to accomplish > much by trying to mandate a single ID scheme, not with several already in > existence and with good adoption. Ted and Andrew identified this problem > as well. I wished we'd had more time to discuss interoperability at the > BOF. > > I like the connections Andrew made to work going on in other IETF groups. > That shows hope that there's existing expertise from which we can draw. > > I see this topic as cloud-agnostic. Clouds are heavily researched and > used in academia; identifiers would describe data sets wherever they > "live", and clouds are likely to be or already heavily used for replication > (caching). > BTW, Cloud also is widely applied in the industry. > The library folks bring a lot to the table, but are a subset of those > interested in this topic. Leif's remark libraries are increasingly > operated by content providers (who are at IETF) is a strong tie. > > Finally, Andrew's suggested 3 options for engagement (copied below) are > very good. > > > On Aug 14, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Andrew Maffei wrote: > > > Three options for engagement seem worthwhile considering: > > 1. More dsii-interested folks currently outside IETF could start > participating > in WGs w cross-cutting interests, once they are identified. > > 2. More IETF'ers could be engaged to participate in current dsii > initiatives outside the IETF and be offered a platform from which > an IETF perspective can be heard. ("Big Data" seems to be getting > big these days for better or worse). > > 3. A dsii working-group might someday be formed within IETF. > > I think that the first 2 options are pre-requisites for the 3rd so > that we can gain familiarity with each others use-cases and cultures > and thus lower the risk of a "bad start". As I have gotten older I > have learned how important "good starts" are to initiatives. > > > best > > beth > > : Beth Plale > : Director, Data to Insight Center > : Professor of Computer Science > : Indiana University Bloomington > > > : Beth Plale > : Director, Data to Insight Center > : Professor of Computer Science > : Indiana University Bloomington > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 10:08 AM, Andrew Maffei wrote: > > On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:32 PM, Melinda Shore wrote: > > I'm still trying to figure out what's being proposed here and I > > realized that my mental model might be considerably different from > > that being used by the work's proponents. Where I'm coming from, > > someone who needs a chunk of data and isn't sure where it is (or, > > in some cases, whether or not it exists) does a search, and the > > search returns a set of stuff, where "stuff" includes descriptive > > information (metadata) and an identifier that's actually a > > locator. The locator is used to access the data. > > > Is that consistent with what proponents have in mind? > > > Hi Melinda. > > The above is the primary use case. I think the "stuff" is all metadata > (attribute/value pairs about the dataset) that includes the "locator" you > mention. > > I'd like to comment on some of the things I saw of value at the Vancouver > meeting. I don't claim to be an identifier or metadata expert so perhaps > some of these ideas were derived outside of IETF. But they were new to me. > > One idea would be to consider working together to agree on the "core > metadata" that would be returned about scientific datasets for data object > access and delivery, etc. > > One of the more interesting IETF WG docs I found was the CDN Interconnet > Metadata i-d (draft-cjlmw-cdni-metadata-00). The sections on ACLs, > ACLRules, Delivery seemed directly applicable to delivery of science > datasets, some of which are proprietary and some of which are not. There > are all sorts of issues related to delivery of proprietary scientific data > and very large datasets (or their subsets) that seem applicable. > > I noticed in another I-D (can't find it right now) the practice of > allowing attribute values of type "URI" being either an explicit, fully > qualified URI *or* a regular-expression substitution that can be applied to > a previously defined URI attribute. > > So, for example, if the URI for my identity as a WHOI employee was " > http://www.whoi.edu/1912/241.11" the URI for a picture of me might be > specified in the metadata associated with this URI as "s/$/.jpg/", > indicating that adding .jpg to the end of the locator URI derives a picture > of the person. > > Another example might be a way to define the way to express a substitution > string for receiving metadata about a timeslice of a video that is pointed > to by a locator for a scientific data object of type "Video". If the > orginal locator was http://www.whoi.edu/1912/2342.234 there might be > metadata that declares how to modify this URI to one that specifies a start > time and end time. > > I'm interested in finding "lessons-learned" by the IETF that it would be > worth considering in the realm of dataset identifier interoperability. > Information in the I-Ds represent hours and hours of discussion/argument > and trial in past meetings about what works and what does not work. > > It would be a shame if we could not find some way to take advantage of > this work done in the past to help with datset identifiers and certain > types of the metadata that would sit behind them. > > --Andy > > _______________________________________________ > dsii mailing list > dsii@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dsii > > > > _______________________________________________ > dsii mailing list > dsii@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dsii > > -- Guangqing Deng
- [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Russ Housley
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Melinda Shore
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Andrew Maffei
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Leif Johansson
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Melinda Shore
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Ed Summers
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Scott Brim
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Andrew Maffei
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Ted Hardie
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Melinda Shore
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Ted Hardie
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Melinda Shore
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Guangqing Deng
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Andrew Maffei
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Beth Plale
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Melinda Shore
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Guangqing Deng
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Guangqing Deng
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Beth Plale
- Re: [dsii] Potential IETF Work Items Scott Brim