Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
Shahid Raza <periodic@live.com> Mon, 26 October 2015 13:30 UTC
Return-Path: <periodic@live.com>
X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5351B3E2B for <dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 06:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m-AgTpp6ds6K for <dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 06:30:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from BLU004-OMC4S9.hotmail.com (blu004-omc4s9.hotmail.com [65.55.111.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CD731B3E2A for <dtls-iot@ietf.org>; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 06:30:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from BLU436-SMTP202 ([65.55.111.135]) by BLU004-OMC4S9.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Mon, 26 Oct 2015 06:30:45 -0700
X-TMN: [0S7syw/sr02ZyLgbtH/1TWBD8vcbEG97]
X-Originating-Email: [periodic@live.com]
Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP20234BC822D7A2C32F79939AC230@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.0 \(3094\))
From: Shahid Raza <periodic@live.com>
In-Reply-To: <562E23A6.1000705@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:30:39 +0100
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
References: <56265F53.7040108@cs.tcd.ie> <5626624A.6050307@gmx.net> <866AAD58-17FA-46B1-B179-C38A5348C69D@arm.com> <5626666F.7080106@gmx.net> <562E0919.80504@sics.se> <562E0EDB.2060108@tzi.org> <BLU437-SMTP8415915F824FD5FF4249DEAC230@phx.gbl> <e4d2565995a94848a445426360fd21bc@DB5PR9001MB0167.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com> <562E23A6.1000705@cs.tcd.ie>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3094)
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2015 13:30:42.0258 (UTC) FILETIME=[82DE8B20:01D10FF2]
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dtls-iot/-pSEh22OJmlrDQRTIGPtfYBEzLA>
Cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, "Kumar, Sandeep" <sandeep.kumar@philips.com>, "dtls-iot@ietf.org" <dtls-iot@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list <dtls-iot.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dtls-iot>, <mailto:dtls-iot-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dtls-iot/>
List-Post: <mailto:dtls-iot@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dtls-iot-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot>, <mailto:dtls-iot-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:30:48 -0000
Going thoroughly (once again) through all the DICE emails discussing the group communication, I can clearly see that the group communication work had most valid criticism and some fake criticism (unfortunately more loud). There is a new draft (draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00) that carefully addresses the valid criticism and provides detailed solutions. I will vote for keeping the DICE active with new energy and finish the charter and declare victory. /Shahid > On 26 Oct 2015, at 13:59, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: > > > > On 26/10/15 12:55, Kumar, Sandeep wrote: >> I do have to say that Zach and Dorothy did spend quite some effort >> trying to get DICE on track even with their growing responsibilities >> outside IETF. Thanks to both! However DICE was just taken hostage by >> a few distractors who even till today haven't provided any >> alternative practical solutions. It sure is a "victory" for the >> distractors, not for anyone here who wanted to solve a real world >> problem in a practical way. > > I think the above is inappropriate. There were and are valid technical > criticisms of what was the planned work. Some who initially supported > that planned work were convinced by those criticisms. That does include > me fwiw, but I'm far from alone. Secure group communication as was > envisaged by our charter just doesn't turn out to work. That's a pity, > but a reality. > > S. > > >> >> When we started DICE, there were quite some good ideas on further >> improving IoT security with just DTLS (remember DTLS-relay). Either >> we need more energy and guidance (also from the chairs) or accept >> that these kind of stuff will be standardized outside IETF. The >> latter is a sad conclusion of closing DICE. >> >> Sandeep >> >>> -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot >>> [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahid Raza Sent: >>> Monday, October 26, 2015 12:44 PM To: Carsten Bormann >>> <cabo@tzi.org> Cc: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>; >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or >>> time to declare victory? >>> >>> I also think we are not done with the DICE charter. To complete the >>> work, I would prefer current chairs but will not mind new chair(s) >>> if the group is closing only because of the unavailability of the >>> current chairs. >>> >>> Regards Shahid >>> >>>> On 26 Oct 2015, at 12:30, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE >>>>> working group instead. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure that ACE is the right WG for this, we don't do >>>> comsec there (we need it, but import it from elsewhere). >>>> >>>> (COSE might be the right WG, but that is rather focused on one >>>> technology.) >>>> >>>> One other DICE thing that is still open is DTLS-over-SMS. No >>>> idea whether we have the energy to finish this, but I seem to >>>> remember it is mostly done. >>>> >>>> Grüße, Carsten >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing >>>> list dtls-iot@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>> >>> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing >>> list dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> >> ________________________________ The information contained in this >> message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable >> law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are >> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, >> forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is >> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended >> recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all >> copies of the original message. >> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing >> list dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot
- [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to decl… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Zach Shelby
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Shahid Raza
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Kumar, Sandeep
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Shahid Raza
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Shahid Raza
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to … Zach Shelby