Re: [dtn] AD review of draft-ietf-dtn-tcpclv4-12

["Taylor, Rick" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Brian,

I think you may have just clarified the issue for me, and I agree.

Given this is a TCP convergence layer, the SNI should assert identity at the TCP/TLS/DNS layer, irrelevant of what the DTN layers above are doing.  As a sysadmin, I want to know that when my TCP-CL connects to 'dtn.airbus.com', it can validate a cert with an SNI of 'dtn.airbus.com', not some DTN EID.

Am I right in thinking that an SNI can also be a dotted IP address, or am I misremembering X509?

Cheers,

Rick Taylor
Product Design Authority, Mobile IP Node
Principal Engineer (eXpert), Mobile Communications
Airbus Defence and Space
Celtic Springs
Coedkernew
Newport
NP10 8FZ

Phone: [phone]
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

www.airbusdefenceandspace.com<http://www.airbusdefenceandspace.com/>

From: dtn [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Brian Sipos
Sent: 19 September 2019 16:29
To: Magnus Westerlund; [e-mail]; magnus.westerlund=[e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [dtn] AD review of draft-ietf-dtn-tcpclv4-12

Magnus,
Regarding the SNI, which I am in process of adding more specific text about:

Because a CLA necessarily deals with data in different layers (the transport and network layers below and the bundle layer above) there needs to be clarity about what is being identified in these sections and the SNI text is lacking. The purpose for adding the SNI  is to follow the same type of multiplexing that HTTP or similar services can provide. So the SNI would contain the host name used to establish the TCP connection and thus it would have exactly the same syntax and semantics as other protocols using the SNI. There would be no relation between SNI and any bundle-layer identifiers; only network layer identifiers.

________________________________
From: Magnus Westerlund
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 07:14
To: [e-mail]; magnus.westerlund=[e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [dtn] AD review of draft-ietf-dtn-tcpclv4-12

Hi,

Yesterday's interim meeting did discuss the EID and SNI relation and
our conclusion as I remember them was that the whole URI is put in the
SNI field, and future scheme specific definition may define a sub-set
of the URI is included.

Due to me reviewing another document that discussed TLS server name
indication (SNI) one thing did get flagged in my head:

So RFC 6066 defines SNI as a DNS Hostname, however the data type is
opaque bytes. However, an DTN or IPN URI is not a host name, so I think
we may have a clash with what is written in RFC 6066:

   Currently, the only server names supported are DNS hostnames;
   however, this does not imply any dependency of TLS on DNS, and other
   name types may be added in the future (by an RFC that updates this
   document).  The data structure associated with the host_name
nameType
   is a variable-length vector that begins with a 16-bit length.  For
   backward compatibility, all future data structures associated with
   new NameTypes MUST begin with a 16-bit length field.  TLS MAY treat
   provided server names as opaque data and pass the names and types to
   the application.

   "HostName" contains the fully qualified DNS hostname of the server,
   as understood by the client.  The hostname is represented as a byte
   string using ASCII encoding without a trailing dot.  This allows the
   support of internationalized domain names through the use of A-
labels
   defined in [RFC5890].  DNS hostnames are case-insensitive..  The
   algorithm to compare hostnames is described in [RFC5890], Section
   2.3.2.4.

   Literal IPv4 and IPv6 addresses are not permitted in "HostName".

I think it is very worth asking someone with more insight into TLS what
issues would arise if one attempt to put the general EID into the
HotsName definition.

Cheers

Magnus


On Tue, 2019-09-17 at 19:47 +0000, Magnus Westerlund wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sorry about the delay in reviewing your update based on my AD review
> comments. Below I have commented on my view how the issue have been
> dealt with.
>
> We appear to have a small number of things that are still not fully
> resolved in my view so please chech these and comment.
>
> I am also sorry that my mail client apparently eat the numbering.
>
>
> On Thu, 2019-08-01 at 13:31 +0000, Magnus Westerlund wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have now performed my AD review of draft-ietf-dtn-tcpclv4-12. I
> > think most are minor comments, however the TLS and security related
> > ones may be more problematic to resolve. I will now be on vacation
> > so
> > you know you will not receive any quick replies from me before the
> > end of the month.
> >
> > Section 1: What are the applicability of TCPCLv4 to BPv6? I wonder
> > as
> > RFC5050 is referenced.
>
> Thanks for the new scope section making things much clearer. My
> interpretation now is that this document only is for BPv7.
>
>
>
> >
> > Section 1.1: Session State Changed. Some editorial issues. Missing
> > ":" initially. Then double ".." on Terminated.
>
> Fixed.
>
> >
> > Section 1.1:
> >    Session Idle Changed  The TCPCL supports indication when the
> > live/idle sub-state changes.  This occurs only when the top-level
> > session state is Established.  Because TCPCL transmits serially
> > over
> > a TCP connection, it suffers from "head of queue blocking" this
> > indication provides information about when a session is available
> > for
> > immediate transfer start.
> >
> > So in which direction are this change indicated/reported, both or
> > only in one of them, or any as implied by Section 2.1's definition
> > of
> > Live Session?
>
> Fixed
>
> >
> > Section 1.1: Transmission Intermediate Progress: Segment is not
> > defined prior to this. Maybe a forward pointe? Or should maybe the
> > whole subsection (1.1) be moved to after definitions?
>
> Fixed
>
> >
> > Section 2: Is there a point to use the RFC 8174 language that makes
> > only capital words have special meaning?
>
> Addressed
>
> >
> > Section 3.1: "One of these parameters is a singleton endpoint
> > identifier for each node (not the singleton Endpoint Identifier
> > (EID)
> > of any application running on the node) to denote the bundle-layer
> > identity of each DTN node."
> >
> > The above quote does imply something that at least BPBis isn't
> > making
> > clear that a particular application agent would have its own EID.
> > It
> > is not clear that there are a one-to-one relationship between
> > bundle
> > nodes and application agents. Can you please clarify what the
> > relationship is and lets figure out if that needs to be clarified
> > back to BPbis.
>
> Ok, so the new text addresses this.
>
> >
> > Section 3.1: "Bundle interleaving can be accomplished by
> > fragmentation at the BP layer or by establishing multiple TCPCL
> > sessions between the same peers."
> >
> > Are there clear rules established for how many TCPCL sessions in
> > parallel that may be established? By the end of my reading this is
> > unanswered.
>
> Answered, no built in limiation. Resource limited.
>
> >
> > Section 3.1: XFER_REFUSE does that indicate that the bundle has
> > already been received. How else does one separate other reasons for
> > refusing a bundle versus that one have received it prior?
>
> I don't think this needs more texf, section 5.2.4 is clear on that
> the
> reason code will make resolve the reason.
>
> >
> > Section 3:1:    Once a session is established established, TCPCL is
> > a
> > symmetric protocol between the peers.
> > Double established
> >
>
> Fixed.
>
> > Figure 4: "Close message" is this TCP level message, if that is the
> > case can that be clarified by prefix with TCP?
>
> Fixed.
>
> >
> > Section 3.2:
> >    Notes on Established Session states:
> >       Session "Live" means transmitting or reeiving over a transfer
> >       stream.
> >
> >       Session "Idle" means no transmission/reception over a
> > transfer
> >       stream.
> >
> >      Session "Closing" means no new transfers will be allowed.
> >
> > Note that "Closing" is not used in Figure 4, it is called ending.
> > Note spelling error on "live" receving.
>
> Fixed
>
> >
> > Section 3.2: Figure 5 and 6 uses PCH without explanation. Figure 5
> > could probably also benefit by expanding CH as Contact Header.
>
> Fixed.
>
> >
> > Figure 8 and 10: Uses [SESSTERM] is this the same as using the
> > SESS_TERM message, or some other procedure. Please clarify.
>
> Okay looking at this again it is clear that [SESSTERM] is used for
> any
> type of session termination. However, as SESSTERM appears to only be
> used in the figures in that meaning, and being defined in Figure 13,
> despite existing in 8, 9 and 10 also. Also considering that Figure 13
> and 14 are signalled termination and the other are failure cases I
> think a sentence or two should be spent to explain its meaning prior
> to
> its usage.
>
>
> >
> > Section 3.3: "   Many other policies can be established in a TCPCL
> > network between these two extremes."
> >
> > The list above includes three items, so the two extremes needs to
> > be
> > enumerated.
>
> Addressed.
>
> >
> > Section 4.1: Can TCPCLv3 and TCPCLv4 coexist on Port 4556? Based on
> > 9.1 the answer is yes, please clarify here.
>
> Fixed
>
> >
> > Section 4.1: "Therefore, the entity MUST retry the connection setup
> > no earlier than some delay time from the last attempt, and it
> > SHOULD
> > use a (binary) exponential backoff mechanism to increase this delay
> > in case of repeated failures."
> >
> > Any recommended upper limit for the backoff?
>
>
> Addressed
>
> >
> > Section 4.2:    Version:  A one-octet field value containing the
> > value 4 (current version of the protocol).
> >
> > I think the use of "the protocol" is unclear, maybe call it "the
> > TCP
> > convergence layer". This to avoid confusion with BPv7.
>
> Fixed.
>
> >
> > Section 4.2: Please define how to set and ignore reserved bits in
> > the
> > Flags field so that it may be extended in the future.
>
> Okay, it is defined to not be set, which is likely to be interpret to
> mean that they should be 0. However, a lazy implementor could also
> interpret that they do not need to set their bit-values at all and
> may
> have a system that have random values at initialization of a memory
> buffer. I would recommend to use ".. SHALL be set to zero by the
> sender."
>
> >
> > Section 4.3 and 4.4: Due to how the Contact Header relate to TLS
> > there is clear risk for a TLS stripping attack where the CAN_TLS
> > flag
> > is cleared. I think there need to be some thought about mitigation
> > of
> > this weakness. Depending on the expected mix of entities and their
> > capabilities one can either have policy for a deployment where one
> > mandates TLS being used, thus preventing the bid-down by not being
> > according to policy. It is more difficult to mitigate in a
> > deployment
> > where one have some entities that doesn't support TLS, unless one
> > can
> > some way securely learn which entities support it or not and thus
> > can
> > detect the manipulation. One can potentially also first attempt to
> > do
> > a TLS handshake for the best version one supports. Then run the CH
> > inside the TLS to prevent TCPCL version and other flags to be
> > manipulated. But that doesn't solve the down-bid. I did note the
> > negotiation in Section 4.7 and the relation to Security Policy.
> > Maybe
> > the solution is to write some text on the risk of TLS striping in
> > Section 8 and add forward pointers in 4.7 to that risk.
>
> Section 8 text makes the biddown clear and indicates the policy
> mitigation. I think this is sufficient.
>
>
> >
> > Section 4.4: Dealing with new TLS versions. BCP 195 does not appear
> > to me to define how to deal with newer versions. However, as TLS
> > 1.3
> > already exist I think this is from the start a relevant question.
>
> I am asking the security ADs if it is current and sufficient with the
> BCP 195 reference.
>
> >
> > Section 4.4: So what about entity authentication? Will the TCPCL
> > entity have a name / identity that can be authenticated so that one
> > know that one are talking to the right entity. And is the solution
> > for this a classical PKI, or something else? Also does the passive
> > entity expect the active (TLS client) to authenticate itself also?
>
> Mostly good new text on the authentication. Here I am going beyond my
> expertise, but based on that RFC 5280 has been updated several times,
> I
> think you need to figure out if any of these updates should be
> indicated as necssary for TCPCLv4. The relevant updates are RFC 6818
> which makes clarifications on RFC 5280 and then the
> intenationalization
> in RFCs 8398, 8399.
>
> The other concern I have is the SNI sentence: "The TLS handshake
> SHOULD
> include a Server Name Indication from the active peer." First of all
> you need a reference for server name indication. It is an TLS
> extension
> and not included in the main TLS specification. For TLS 1.2 it is
> section 3 of RFC 6066. The second part is that I don't think it is
> clearly specified what should be in the SNI field in TLS. Looking at
> the DTN URI scheme definition I would guess that only the node-name
> part of the URI should be included, or?
>
> This also relates to the section 4.4.2 TLS host name validation part.
> It says that certificates subjectAltName should be the Node ID. That
> raises question marks as no part the DTN URI format defines something
> as Node ID. The second is what happens if someone uses another URI
> scheme with BP? Or maybe this is simple to resolve if the whole URI
> should be used, but that looks less than obvious at least in the case
> of DTN. And I haven't looked at the IPN scheme.
>
> Sorry about being very cautious here. But, I know how much trouble I
> have had with URIs and their application in the protocol when I
> worked
> with RTSP 2.0.
>
> >
> > Section 4.8: Please define how to set and ignore the reserved bits.
>
> Same as above about zero.
>
> >
> > Section 4.5: Based on that many later sections just refer to the
> > Message Header, shouldn't the section title for section 4.5 be
> > Message Header? Now the first mentioning of "Message Header" are in
> > Figure 16's title.
>
> Fixed.
>
> >
> > Section 6.1:
> >    After sending a SESS_TERM message, an entity MAY continue a
> > possible
> >    in-progress transfer in either direction.  After sending a
> > SESS_TERM
> >    message, an entity SHALL NOT begin any new outgoing transfer
> > (i.e.
> >    send an XFER_SEGMENT message) for the remainder of the session.
> >    After receving a SESS_TERM message, an entity SHALL NOT accept
> > any
> >    new incoming transfer for the remainder of the session.
> >
> > To me it seems that the above paragraph contains one contradiction.
> > The parenthesis in the second sentence (i.e. send an XFER_SEGMENT
> > message) appears to be false. Because as the beginning of the
> > sentence implies that it can't start a new transfer. However
> > SESS_TERM is allowed to be inserted in between XFER_SEGEMENT
> > messages
> > for a transfer ID, i.e. XFER_SEGMENT(ID=7), SESS_TERM,
> > XFER_SEGMENT(ID=7, end) is an allowed sequence. Can you please
> > clarify.
>
> Addressed.
>
> >
> > Section 8.
> > If this identifier is used outside of a TLS-secured session or
> >    without further verification as a means to determine which
> > bundles
> >    are transmitted over the session, then the node that has
> > falsified
> >    its identity would be able to obtain bundles that it otherwise
> > would
> >    not have.
> >
> > I don't see how a entity could trust the in SESS_INIT provided EID
> > more just because it is in TLS unless there are some mechanism for
> > binding the EID to the TLS session endpoint (client or server).
> > Some
> > type of authentication is needed to prove the identity.
> >
>
> I think the new text in Section 8 and the clarified TLS procedures
> resolves this issue.
>
>
> > Section 8.
> > Therefore, an entity SHALL NOT use the EID value of an
> > unsecured contact header to derive a peer node's identity unless it
> >    can corroborate it via other means.
> >
> > The EID value is not part of the CH, only SESS_INIT. Is this a left
> > over from TCPCLv3 or earlier versions?
>
> Fixed.
>
> >
> > Section 8. Needs text on  TLS stripping attack due to the optional
> > TLS usage.
>
> Fixed.
>
> >
> > Section 9: "In this section, registration procedures are as defined
> > in [RFC8126]." ... defined as in ...
> >
>
> Fixed.
>
> > Section 9: "Some of the registries below are created new for
> > TCPCLv4
> > but share code values with TCPCLv3."
> >
> > I don't think "share" is the right word here. Maybe "Some of the
> > registries have been defined as version specific to TCPCLv4, and
> > imports some or all codepoints from TCPCLv3."
>
> Fixed.
>
> >
> > Section 9.3: Is RFC Required unnecessary strict? Considering the
> > quite large name space, I would think that specification required
> > would be a suitable policy? Just trying to understand what you
> > think
> > is gained by having someone publish the extension as an RFC, in any
> > stream including the independent.
>
> So this was changed to Expert Review and that is fine. Any
> registration
> requirements or special considerations for the Expert?
>
> >
> > Section 9.4: Same question as for 30)
>
> Addressed.
>
> >
> > Section 9.5: Here RFC required may be suitable. However, does it
> > make
> > sense to allocate 2 or 4 points also here for Private/Experiments?
>
> Addressed.
> >
> > Section 9.6: Here I would consider Expert Review with a
> > specification
> > requirement. I also do not understand why so much is reserved, a
> > reason for that?
> >
> > I would expect that the policy for 9.6-9.8 to be aligned so may
> > require change if change is decided on 33.
>
> Fixed.
> >
> > A big question I have after having read this document is how one
> > discover / determine the IP+port(s) to connect to for a given EID.
> > Is
> > this currently completely deployment specific? And how bound is
> > this
> > to Bundle routing?
> >
> > What may be missing is the section that tells the intended
> > implementor that in addition to follow this specification you do
> > need
> > a solution to the following things, like for example authentication
> > framework that allows one to verify the TLS connects to EID
> > mappings.
> > Or an address resolution protocol that maps EID to IP address and
> > port pairs for cases when routing simply give you Forward this
> > bundle
> > to EID using TCPCLv4.
>
> So the scope of the document clarifies things and points to some
> needs.
> So I will consider this one resolved.
>
> Cheers
>
> Magnus Westerlund
>
>
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Cheers

Magnus Westerlund


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