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([2406:e003:1184:f001:abb6:ea4f:cf8e:1d0d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h9-20020a170902b94900b001ac7c6fd129sm16010455pls.43.2023.05.16.15.30.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 16 May 2023 15:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <90b84dba-b158-a163-6a8f-15e4f6d2b2a2@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 10:30:49 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.10.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Toerless Eckert , Jari Arkko Cc: Manner Jukka , "e-impact@ietf.org" References: <316EB934-ED4E-4C4E-AB38-C74BA1FC96B7@id3as.co.uk> <4E6A89C6-8345-4E52-B35A-D421CF3AF680@aalto.fi> From: Brian E Carpenter In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [E-impact] The "human-readable" delusion X-BeenThere: e-impact@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: Environmental impacts of the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 22:31:00 -0000 On 17-May-23 02:50, Toerless Eckert wrote: > I hope we would have a hard time finding someone in the community to disagree > with these as principles. Alas, once we get to actual ideas what we could > still do beyond all that we have already done, work gets a lot harder. > > For example, is it really worthwhile for energy saving to ask the whole > JSON application layer world/standards we have to evolve to CBOR (binary) ? > > I think the energy saving in high-speed networks would be negligible and > likely outweight by the energy spent by the additional IETF efforts > meeting time, travel, brains involved,... do add CBOR definitions for > all the existing JSON work. And figure out interop. Just an observation, or possibly Carpenter's Corollary to Moore's Law: All "human-readable" formats progressively degrade to "machine-readable" as memory and CPU become cheaper. Prime examples are HTML and XML, of course. 30 years ago HTML documents were written by humans and were more or less understandable to humans. The IETF site in November 1996, for example:

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