[E-impact] Re: [Green] Network Equipment Energy Efficiency Metric

Sébastien Rumley <sebastien.rumley@hefr.ch> Wed, 13 November 2024 07:54 UTC

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Subject: [E-impact] Re: [Green] Network Equipment Energy Efficiency Metric
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I totally concur with Dean.

"how the operators decide between economic dispatch, grid stability and 
frequency regulation, environmental regulations and emissions , 
operational flexibility at the power plants" - add to that, in some 
regions, flood management. From a CO2 perspective, the ideal situation 
is a full hydroelectric dam, fully charged of low-carbon energy. From a 
flooding management perspective, the ideal situation is an empty dam, 
ready to absorb as much water as possible. In Switzerland, recently, 
there's been several instances of flooding that could have been 
prevented - but greed of energy operators led to bad decisions.

Energy producers do know (approx.) how much CO2 is associated with the 
electricity they pump into the grid. But I don't think grid operators 
are capable to track 'live' the compound gCO2/kWh associated with the 
energy they deliver. One of the reason is that they are interconnected 
with other grid-operators. Which, actually, makes the word "grid" hard 
to define - to some extent, the ENTSO-E in Europe can be considered as 
one big grid... or "inter-grid". Very much like 'inter-net', not every 
information is shared across the network, either due to the lack of 
information system, or to protect commercial interests.

Actually, the market for "Guarantee of Origin" is decoupled from the 
energy market. If you consume 5 MWh of low-carbon electricity, you may 
want to buy a certificate for an equivalent amount of energy, but you'll 
get a separate bill for this. This certificate shows a "date of 
production", which is generally just indicating a year. Efforts are 
being made to force monthly reporting, but we are far to hourly 
tracking, not to mention minute tracking. Furthermore, assuming you 
consume 5 MWh during one particular day, you'd have to browse across all 
certificates to find the ones showing this particular day. Pretty much 
like futures on commodities like oil, gaz, etc., there is or will be a 
market for "green energy in march25", "green energy in avril25", etc. 
But I doubt there will be a market for every particular day, and for 
sure not for every hour.

To further concur with Dean, if IT/DC/internet industry wants to save 
CO2, we should rather ask the grid operators and energy producers how we 
can help them to do so. But doing our own business in our corner with a 
limited understanding of the consequences will most likely end up 
counterproductive, IMO.


On 12.11.2024 18:20, Dean Bogdanovic wrote:
>
> 	
> You don't often get email from ivandean@gmail.com. Learn why this is 
> important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
> 	
>
> I’m really curious how many people understand how electrical grid 
> operates,
>
> the difference between active, reactive and apparent power in 
> electrical grid. And how the grip operators are balancing power plants 
> to maintain the needed power levels, how the operators decide between 
> economic dispatch, grid stability and frequency regulation, 
> environmental regulations and emissions , operational flexibility at 
> the power plants etc.
> Until we do, I would not speak about CO2 emissions and other complex 
> energy and traffic engineering relations.
>
> Lets first figure out how to report energy consumption by the 
> networks, from very basic power consumers (SFPs) to more complex, like 
> topologies. And provide the ability to provide the energy consumption 
> information about an element, group of elements, part of network or 
> even whole network to people who will know what to do with the info.
>
> Dean
>
> On 12 Nov 2024, at 14:59, Mark Butcher wrote:
>
>     What’s interesting is seeing how kWh/GB is so variable – either
>     based on network demand, the reality of the power curve and most
>     importantly for me, when translated into CO2e how the variability
>     massively increases (time and location)
>
>     *From:* Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
>     *Date:* Tuesday, 12 November 2024 at 14:32
>     *To:* green@ietf.org <green@ietf.org>, E-Impact IETF
>     <e-impact@ietf.org>, irtf-discuss@irtf.org <irtf-discuss@irtf.org>
>     *Subject:* [Green] Re: [E-impact] Network Equipment Energy
>     Efficiency Metric
>
>
>     Is is useful for network planners to know kWh/peak-GB for an
>     entire infrastructure?
>
>     This doesn't try to model reaction of network equipment to
>     increased flows,
>     but rather to model how infrastructure grows to accomodate higher
>     peak loads?
>
>     There is also an induced demand issue. Networks grow when they fill,
>     assuming there is revenue to support it. This is akin to
>     transportation:
>     https://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf
>     <https://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf>
>
>     --
>     Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>      -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-                      *I*LIKE*TRAINS*
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Green mailing list -- green@ietf.org
>     To unsubscribe send an email to green-leave@ietf.org
>
>
-- 
Dr. Sébastien RUMLEY, Professor
iCoSys Institute, part of
HEIA-FR - School of Engineering and Architecture - Fribourg, part of
HES-SO - University of Applied Sciences and Arts Western Switzerland