Return-Path: X-Original-To: e-impact@mail2.ietf.org Delivered-To: e-impact@mail2.ietf.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058013B82C9D; Mon, 30 Jun 2025 03:51:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rSwXB501ScJR; Mon, 30 Jun 2025 03:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB0773B82C8F; Mon, 30 Jun 2025 03:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-311da0bef4aso1956276a91.3; Mon, 30 Jun 2025 03:51:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1751280717; x=1751885517; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2EcF/ZDQwD7nxiauMPqHIH2W+SlL254VCmF7TVs1WgE=; b=cI+9Im6YJ5jnTWFNfTMLo/y7tcms3RDHjBJubBJXOdZio+dPjOXudGFbGsxW74pn1t PDBPZFvuynk6HPnizkS1eofyPeeUSXdbOfAcHAOVNHQJ5Fzock10cQRFzHTcSgUwkoIw 7ZkQwrR1JT5hWWtVPdEYIALZYhhHEp3SDh692vwoxOFPVXzKVJokxUxlY4WEKpPR40qH BWaEYoKLtMJurSykkqVXsTYsYIGLHAv2ORmYe0P2TK6ZGH1fpruhvK7HVRazAyvJOz7A b5FrJFnW/cLujlnhsXAw9auPdDEBmz8dKwcrDMaINEu6dkniHT+w0qYlIcMIIzGymUTe jYew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1751280717; x=1751885517; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=2EcF/ZDQwD7nxiauMPqHIH2W+SlL254VCmF7TVs1WgE=; b=dmOdHAeyIDj5LTMbynYYhm3jz1svE7aBquAG6/Som12aGa15xMtTzUpcauDtB7ftc0 ribV2ASfklQMwBzwnC1CTGIyNApmtibkKBUZXdvPWq9A2jw7TujWZzVOaHr86CDpSIUg 0ztDE2AlSsojvJcOjl7xrr5nG7uQU4Tc0+amXLoqAI/KRWPJaPUAv/3Y8zuG39xs+3yZ r+BZN65xJMxITpxH4eRBN/eSJU8U+BDkJR9MK5Zs1awJPMvrpv8FxhXOTYqmXsiuwKkS KIoVpIQ9svFjJiOQHBUfdWRo8Aw+2pz3C767LNttsoL+mcGIGvo7nT6jOYJ7tIWAjIVS 4tzg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVF64ysNff82Ogo6OUNed9goELf5aLzeHEh+stslnEV0kfK+FCiI/HyjeNS2OOgMZZGixVfig==@ietf.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw2igbwxCADiGb552gna5/czkupxTN1U4veli8uTaUgC+oP4JAQ dNgiBCr8+Zn05yUR73a267OybI3CLn4h439XEI6KFqd/nPsrBH5+IMNWEH9QlHPp5VKpWJ0M8LY vtWgamkAw0ezHbwHUoA/VX4ZH+GQuMms= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncv0mBc5DoB5UUmMzF1PJ3gjMv3Iuy0haw5kUmaMYpJ43Kh5rWX9OrYLcH704v4 UZPTO5A5OfXNdkC0LYT6LuxOzPGN9Fmt06Jldhniy/wy1sEhvlKunMosLHwAOQVC36GJvVOZtlm JwlYMyUTGWXas/x1nNEwhy7rIYMBMS4Uu6/3l28ypbvnXh8YBGuSpN30vuknfU2LKu/96SCAlq9 t0dnw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGr6QakuzSJZWNdkgam8oG50KwOHpQYg4jsLcsnQ0WtuiPq90mkVfAD/hPy53AAPpuYxdYijq8gKe+TFPMqzg4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3c4a:b0:311:c1ec:7d11 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-318c92a2e8emr20754842a91.18.1751280716569; Mon, 30 Jun 2025 03:51:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Hesham ElBakoury Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2025 03:51:45 -0700 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXwfTeNk-J5otyrdwiPnARYVeJ2JjJBEdF426hoAN34uuQ2Rxt3jqEMil_A Message-ID: To: "STEPHAN Emile INNOV/NET" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000361a80638c7d185" Message-ID-Hash: PD4TUSYSV36MVOLTD6H3PWY5U4K4OWFF X-Message-ID-Hash: PD4TUSYSV36MVOLTD6H3PWY5U4K4OWFF X-MailFrom: helbakoury@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: E-Impact IETF , sustain@irtf.org, green@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6 Precedence: list Subject: =?utf-8?q?=5BE-impact=5D_Re=3A_A_view_of_the_sustainable_computing_landscape?= List-Id: Environmental impacts of the Internet Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000000361a80638c7d185 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not only about recycling. Recycling Economy is certainly important issue to consider when we talk about sustainability. The paper also talks about operational carbon. It also discusses an important issue related to *Demand Response.(DR)* "As renewable energy proliferates, sustainable data centers must delay or boost computation based on the availability of carbon-free energy. *Such demand response (DR) requires grid and data center coordination.* One interface would use real-time prices to incentivize data centers to modulate energy use, but this departs from today=E2=80=99s contracts that c= harge based on the amount of power provisioned rather than used. An alternative interface would simply communicate carbon intensity, assuming data centers would modulate demand without compensation. *DR will require hardware and software to trade off performance and power*." As I mentioned in an earlier email we need a framework to evaluate such tradeoffs. Thanks Hesham On Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 1:32=E2=80=AFAM wrote: > IMO, It s really short about recycling. > > > > *From:* Hesham ElBakoury > *Sent:* Saturday, June 28, 2025 7:17 PM > *To:* E-Impact IETF ; sustain@irtf.org; green@ietf.org > *Subject:* [E-impact] A view of the sustainable computing landscape > > > > *CAUTION* : This email originated outside the company. Do not click on > any links or open attachments unless you are expecting them from the > sender. > > *ATTENTION* : Cet e-mail provient de l'ext=C3=A9rieur de l'entreprise. Ne > cliquez pas sur les liens ou n'ouvrez pas les pi=C3=A8ces jointes =C3=A0 = moins de > connaitre l'exp=C3=A9diteur. > > > > This is the most recent paper which provides "a view of the sustainable > computing landscape". > > > > The paper is coauthored by authors from the following institutions: > > University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA, USA > > Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, USA Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, US= A > > Ohio State University, Columbus, OH, USA Carnegie Mellon University, > Pittsburgh, PA, USA > > California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA, USA > > Yale University, New Haven, CT, USA > > > > This paper "presents an agenda for making computation more sustainable by > rethinking how we design, build, and operate digital systems. The agenda = is > interdisciplinary and spans hardware design, software optimization, energ= y > systems, and economic policy. It seeks to mitigate both embodied carbon, > the emissions associated with manufacturing hardware like chips and > servers, and operational carbon, the emissions associated with the > electricity used to power this hardware. Reducing both types of emissions > will require modular hardware organizations that allow greater reuse, > energy-efficient data center design and management, and intelligent use o= f > renewable or carbon-free energy. The authors encourage collaboration acro= ss > disciplines=E2=80=94from computer science and engineering to economics an= d > environmental science=E2=80=94to ensure that technical solutions align wi= th > societal goals" > > > > This agenda is applicable to the sustainability architecture effort that > Jari and Suresh are leading. > > > > Hesham > [1] https://www.cell.com/patterns/fulltext/S2666-3899(25)00144-8 > > _________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________ > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > --0000000000000361a80638c7d185 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not only about recycling. Recycling Economy is certainly = important issue to consider when we talk=C2=A0about sustainability.=C2=A0
The paper also talks about oper= ational carbon.=C2=A0

It also = discusses an important issue related to Demand Response.(DR) "A= s=C2=A0renewable energy proliferates, sustainable data centers must delay o= r boost computation based on the availability of carbon-free energy.=C2=A0<= b>Such demand response (DR) requires grid and data center coordination.= One interface would use real-time prices to incentivize data centers to mo= dulate energy use, but this departs from today=E2=80=99s contracts that cha= rge based on the amount of power provisioned rather than used. An alternati= ve interface would simply communicate carbon intensity, assuming data cente= rs would modulate demand without compensation. DR will require hardware = and software to trade off performance and power." As I mentioned i= n an earlier email we need a framework to evaluate such tradeoffs.

Thanks
He= sham

=
On Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 1:32=E2=80=AFAM= <emile.stephan@orange.com<= /a>> wrote:

IMO, It s really short about recycling.

=C2=A0

From: Hesham ElBakoury <helba= koury@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2025 7:17 PM
To: E-Impact IETF <e-impact@ietf.org>; sustain@irtf.org; = gree= n@ietf.org
Subject: [E-impact] A view of the sustainable computing landscape=

=C2=A0

CAUTION : This email originated outside the compa= ny. Do not click on any links or open attachments unless you are expecting them from the sender.

ATTENTION : Cet e-mail provient de l'ext=C3= =A9rieur de l'entreprise. Ne cliquez pas sur les liens ou n'ouvrez pas les pi=C3=A8ces jointes =C3=A0 moins de connaitre l'exp=C3=A9diteu= r.

=C2=A0<= /p>

This is the most recent paper which provides "a= view of the sustainable computing landscape".=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The paper is coauthored by authors from the followin= g institutions:

University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA, USA=C2= =A0

Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, USA Cornell Unive= rsity, Ithaca, NY, USA

Ohio State University, Columbus, OH, USA Carnegie Me= llon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA=C2=A0

California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA, US= A=C2=A0

Yale University, New Haven, CT, USA

=C2=A0

This paper "presents an agenda for making compu= tation more sustainable by rethinking how we design, build, and operate dig= ital systems. The agenda is interdisciplinary and spans hardware design, so= ftware optimization, energy systems, and economic policy. It seeks to mitigate both embodied carbon, the emissions = associated with manufacturing hardware like chips and servers, and operatio= nal carbon, the emissions associated with the electricity used to power thi= s hardware. Reducing both types of emissions will require modular hardware organizations that allow greate= r reuse, energy-efficient data center design and management, and intelligen= t use of renewable or carbon-free energy. The authors encourage collaborati= on across disciplines=E2=80=94from computer science and engineering to economics and environmental science=E2=80=94to = ensure that technical solutions align with societal goals&= quot;

=C2=A0

This agenda is applicable to the sustainability arch= itecture effort that Jari and Suresh are leading.

=C2=A0

______________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
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