IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [E2ee] A Civil Society Glossary and Primer for End-to-End Encryption Policy in 2022

Alec Muffett <alec.muffett@gmail.com> Fri, 01 July 2022 13:31 UTC

Return-Path: <alec.muffett@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: e2ee@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: e2ee@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3601C15AAD0 for <e2ee@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 1 Jul 2022 06:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.106
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WcwM2pG5Wsgk for <e2ee@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 1 Jul 2022 06:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oa1-x2e.google.com (mail-oa1-x2e.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B265C15A74C for <e2ee@ietf.org>; Fri, 1 Jul 2022 06:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-oa1-x2e.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-101dc639636so3545441fac.6 for <e2ee@ietf.org>; Fri, 01 Jul 2022 06:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=P08OgcFMNnkBWGCEVVAZvGVkDnhYv7AOppYtgFde/Ao=; b=SKE82kNPmZJE/QdLYsGI//c/q4EjzpSFlxKawL0EMWq1EGtI8rnUQaBn0VeTOwHl89 xKYPjskbc9YL3o6svePg/uOE31ucpd3NNhNXdzF1F++sCnbCcAe4+UT3FGq3pFMthlel iTp4fiiu4/7QWqoPqDitPz1mYSYji8cQv06QrzdRRWxQTTKU5loNI22ZrGfh/+tIzR5Q Bx2hBXh+1t/1YFqRIoUFCuSRoC5Pk3oHFLo+jQVy5VfMf/tezqY1jSTnemdYcvI3aWI0 nShGdONDkvt6/idXCS9UQshLw0WHejprSQsUi2VwiVyGBjAYt/2rQDrm969fQZJK1LCg YbFw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=P08OgcFMNnkBWGCEVVAZvGVkDnhYv7AOppYtgFde/Ao=; b=slAqDaozzMuABtBciXl0DIJ4jFOlH00IsRnJPSoR5IjhAa6RGLSq9GqGLiTkr9RRPp KxWXXSZYd2ybMQsfRBMYHpbwZA4DeE8IgCOnpNxemll1O/BQ2+efNfJxnauvDVAIHcIY MYSmFndf7psYV0pKLmNSYcbnwW3u8aLIst/13cdW6CYB4qBZaACA29bHb+6cXLax7JOK /LH5qXFDa8rahmYYr3DV346FuXvaxfqS9d4FobdGdEWt6jlzkxMG+4YMLb332XPGdVP9 9C+O/KzT+n0HHvmVmsyXmag1oCaX9qYBSE6QH77wy72KaXbMWN1W9/fZHWrYO1jK8YNG FIwA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/GI2woPibPQyxrTqsI/rlePXJKgEegrngQZcyqhCyOK43KtRPi bFJ3trjvUp4ZE7/tta+Uw5bv/cqEDeYPVY11vuMO6fnt
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uPnkcs8iZMyFDBppdQ8D/5poGKuUZx4gvi3cRjUsMcgtQetK6nFcXFJHELYd5H/oqex1TX1nDH8kX7Ab4TOOs=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:81a:b0:108:a696:dd79 with SMTP id fw26-20020a056870081a00b00108a696dd79mr10011711oab.82.1656682278237; Fri, 01 Jul 2022 06:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAFWeb9L=5SVkh4x=pdHfrGq6OGibcQrUyCn5NfvbAX-Vxjmr7w@mail.gmail.com> <2139777716.90319.1656679340862@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <2139777716.90319.1656679340862@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
From: Alec Muffett <alec.muffett@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2022 14:31:07 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFWeb9Lx2ZYsySC_+zjwPi3PqkahQFuG6nBBR5hsN+2uN8_BXA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
Cc: e2ee@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b33c1405e2be6688"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/e2ee/_0zgZQfkic0SO1_NQNCneENOT7Y>
Subject: Re: [E2ee] A Civil Society Glossary and Primer for End-to-End Encryption Policy in 2022
X-BeenThere: e2ee@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of the definition of end-to-end encryption." <e2ee.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/e2ee>, <mailto:e2ee-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/e2ee/>
List-Post: <mailto:e2ee@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:e2ee-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e2ee>, <mailto:e2ee-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2022 13:31:21 -0000

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022, 13:42 Vittorio Bertola, <
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> wrote:

I think I disagree with basically your entire section on interoperability,
> but I will just leave this here as a statement.
>

Thank you Vittorio! I look forward to eventually seeing your articulation
of how you drew your conclusions. It would be great to see more and
*worked* reasoning & rationale for perspectives and decisions that are made
in this space.

Far too many people, for too long, have been permitted to simply work and
regulate *unchallenged* on the basis of "gut feelings" and "well,
obviously..."

It would be great to start seeing more "...and *how* do you justify that
position?" questions. If my report falls short in this space I will gladly
fix it.

- alec

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email