Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discussions
creed@opengeospatial.org Fri, 09 April 2010 16:09 UTC
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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 12:09:24 -0400
From: creed@opengeospatial.org
To: "DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)" <BD2985@att.com>
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Cc: "DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTLABS)" <md3135@att.com>, earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org, earlywarning@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discussions
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In Europe they are working toward a Pan-European alerting and warning infrastructure with full interoperability. However, I am not sure at what level in the "stack" this work is being done - perhaps more at the higher levels in the application arena. I do not see discussions on L2 or CMAS or whatever. The European programs are initially being funded as part of the FP 6 and 7 initiatives. Check out ORCHESTRA (http://www.eu-orchestra.org/), GMES/SAFER (http://www.emergencyresponse.eu/site/FO/scripts/myFO_accueil.php?lang=EN) and SANY (http://www.sany-ip.eu/). SANY is interesting because the focus is on integrating sensor alerts into a modeling, warning, and alerting infrastructure. Similar activities are occurring in Asia, such as Debris Flow Monitoring and Alerting in Taiwan, Tsunami Alerting in Indonesia, and earthquake warning in Japan. Regards Carl > Brian - > > If "no one" is asking for interoperability (and I am not sure who "no one" > is :-) ) then I agree this can be a somewhat peaceful co-existence of > mandated services (CMAS, EAS, iPAWS, DMOpen vs a market driven service > that is not and will not be designed with the intention to integrate into > or interoperate with services such as CMAS. > > However, because of the potential for confusion by the reader and > regulators, all we are asking is that the charter clearly state this fact > that apparently we are in agreement on. > > Can we craft some language for the charter that emphasizes this? > > Brian D. > > -----Original Message----- > From: earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Brian Rosen > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:34 AM > To: Padma Valluri > Cc: earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org; SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW); > earlywarning@ietf.org; DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTLABS) > Subject: Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discussions > > Because it¹s pretty hard to define ³interoperability² with L2 mechanisms > that deliver alerts. One of the biggest problems I have with most > existing > L2 specific mechanisms is that they assume they are the only way alerts > are > received. As a result, if you get an alert from some other mechanism, you > have no idea if its the same alert or a different one. Your UI can't help > you at all with this. One of the things I think we need is some ID > mechanism which is protocol agnostic and simply serves as the way to know > if > you got an alert from multiple sources that they are the same alert. > > Actually, no one is asking for interoperability. They are discussing > various forms of peaceful co-existence. Designing the protocol to take > advantage of some kinds of L2 packet delivery mechanisms may be possible > however. > > Brian > > > On 4/8/10 9:18 AM, "Padma Valluri" <pvalluri@csc.com> wrote: > >> >> I'm not sure what "use" means here other than to imply >> interoperable/interworking with existing capabilities that are more >> efficient >> in certain segments of the network and deployed already. Why can't we be >> up >> front about making the interoperabilty as one of the main requirements >> of this >> charter to provide an end-to-end solution? >> >> thanks, >> Padma . >> >> >> From: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net> >> To: Richard Barnes <rbarnes@bbn.com>, "SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW)" >> <DS2225@att.com> >> Cc: earlywarning@ietf.org, "DOLLY, MARTIN C \(ATTLABS\)" >> <md3135@att.com> >> Date: 04/07/2010 05:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discussions >> >> >> >> >> I'm not bothered by the first part. I don't like the last phrase, >> because >> I'm not sure we should specifically describe such capabilities, and it >> may >> not be a gateway. How about changing the last sentence to "A goal of >> the >> work will be to be able to use layer-2 specific mechanisms, where >> available, >> to minimize load on the network." >> >> >> On 4/7/10 5:41 PM, "Richard Barnes" <rbarnes@bbn.com> wrote: >> >>> Ok, I can grant that that's something that's not clearly explained in >>> the current charter. However, it's also an issue that will tend to be >>> layer-2 specific. How about something like this: >>> >>> " >>> Emergency alerts that are delivered to large numbers of endpoints can >>> put a large load on the network, particularly when many affected users >>> are on the same local network (e.g., the 100,000 attendees at a >>> sporting event). This working group will consider mechanisms for >>> minimizing this load, such as IP multicast. In particular, some >>> approaches have been developed to handle emergency alerting in >>> different types networks, and it will be a goal of this working group >>> to facilitate interoperability with these approaches, for example, to >>> enable gateways to relay messages from this Internet mechanism into a >>> specific layer-2 channel. >>> " >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 4:47 PM, SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW) wrote: >>> >>>> It is deficient because it does not take into account the impacts that >>>> will occur to the various access technologies. All access >>>> technologies >>>> do not have the same capacity, bandwidth, etc. Therefore any design >>>> that >>>> has the potential to send information to all citizens within an area >>>> via >>>> any variety of access technologies needs to consider these factors. >>>> For >>>> example, consider the scenario of trying to send an alert to the >>>> 100,000 >>>> fans at a college football game. >>>> >>>> The current draft charter of ATOCA does not address this which is why >>>> the additional sentences for the second paragraph were proposed. >>>> >>>> DeWayne >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Richard Barnes [mailto:rbarnes@bbn.com <mailto:rbarnes@bbn.com> >>>> ] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:38 PM >>>> To: SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW) >>>> Cc: DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW); Henning Schulzrinne; DOLLY, MARTIN C >>>> (ATTLABS); earlywarning@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discussions >>>> >>>> Could you please clarify how you believe it to be deficient? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 4:37 PM, SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW) wrote: >>>> >>>>> My "personal" view is that the charter as currently written is not >>>>> correct or adequate. >>>>> >>>>> DeWayne >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org >>>>> [mailto:earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org >>>>> <mailto:earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org> ] On Behalf Of DALY, BRIAN K >>>>> (ATTCINW) >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:33 PM >>>>> To: Henning Schulzrinne; DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTLABS) >>>>> Cc: earlywarning@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discussions >>>>> >>>>> Fine but my "personal" view does not change. >>>>> >>>>> Brian Daly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu >>>>> <mailto:hgs@cs.columbia.edu> ] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:31 PM >>>>> To: DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTLABS) >>>>> Cc: DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW); earlywarning@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discussions >>>>> >>>>> The point is that people speak as individuals in the IETF and there >>>>> is >>>>> no particular notion that a corporate opinion has any more weight >>>>> than >>>>> that of any individual. Thus, stating a corporate opinion is out of >>>>> place and against IETF custom and convention. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Henning >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 4:28 PM, DOLLY, MARTIN C (ATTLABS) wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> They sure do, look at everyone's badge >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org <earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org> >>>>>> To: DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW) >>>>>> Cc: earlywarning@ietf.org <earlywarning@ietf.org> >>>>>> Sent: Wed Apr 07 16:21:20 2010 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discussions >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn't know that the IETF had corporate opinions. But maybe the >>>>>> IETF >>>>> rules have changed recently? >>>>>> >>>>>> Henning >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 4:13 PM, DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW) wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> For the record, AT&T is in opposition to removing the last >>>>>>> sentence. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian Daly >>>>>>> AT&T >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> earlywarning mailing list >>>>>> earlywarning@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >>>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> earlywarning mailing list >>>>> earlywarning@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> earlywarning mailing list >>>>> earlywarning@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> earlywarning mailing list >>> earlywarning@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> earlywarning mailing list >> earlywarning@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > earlywarning mailing list > earlywarning@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning > _______________________________________________ > earlywarning mailing list > earlywarning@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning > >
- [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Discuss… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… ken carlberg
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Brian Rosen
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Marc Linsner
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Marc Linsner
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Marc Linsner
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Brian Rosen
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Marc Linsner
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… MUSGROVE, CHARLES P (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Richard Barnes
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Richard Barnes
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… SENNETT, DEWAYNE A (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… James M. Polk
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… James M. Polk
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Brian Rosen
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Richard Barnes
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Janet P Gunn
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Brian Rosen
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Richard Barnes
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Janet P Gunn
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… ken carlberg
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Padma Valluri
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Brian Rosen
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… Padma Valluri
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DALY, BRIAN K (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… creed
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… MUSGROVE, CHARLES P (ATTCINW)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… creed
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [earlywarning] Finishing the Charter Text Dis… creed