Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Categories
"Hannes Tschofenig" <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> Wed, 15 July 2009 17:25 UTC
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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>
To: creed@opengeospatial.org
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:27:02 +0300
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Cc: earlywarning@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Categories
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Hey Carl, >Another touch point is that the European community is defining >and prototyping an event based alerting architecture that is >coordinated with the INSPIRE (pan-European spatial data >infrastructure) activity. The architecture is payload agnostic >and can support any number of alerting payload encodings (CAP, >GeoRSS, Atom based, other). I like the idea of carrying generic alerting payloads. This is probably something we should pick up. Ciao Hannes > >Carl > > > > > Hi Keith, >> >>>Firstly, I am not sure the identification of the types of warnings I >>>wish to subscribe to, and the nature of the warning, are necessarily >>>one and the same thing, yet that seems to be assumed by the drafts. >> >> If you want to subscribe to certain alerts then there better >should be >> a relationship otherwise the point of including any >information about >> desired alerts is a bit mood. >> >> Henning was a bit doubtful of the benefit of subscribing to separate >> categories of alerts. Someone else suggested that this >should be left >> to a manual procedure of picking the right server that has a certain >> type of alert messages to distribute, e.g., weather alerts. >> >>> >>>Secondly, surely we should be seeking some alignment of >warning types >>>between the different delivery mechanisms. >> >> This is not the feedback I got from others. >> >>>I >>>note that we have lists in >>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-sipping-cap-04 and >>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-ecrit-lost-early-warning >>>-01 that are aligned with each other, but bear no relationship with >>>those being defined in other bodies. >> >> Well. I took these terms from the categories in the CAP >specification. >> >> >>> >>>For example 3GPP TS 22.268 defines the umbrella for warnings >provided >>>by the cell broadcast service >>> >>>http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/22268.htm >>> >>>This defines a structure that incorporates at least ETWS for the far >>>east, and CMAS for north america. Europe is still working on a >>>coordinated set of requirements. >>> >>>and you will find the message identifiers for these two in 3GPP TS >>>23.041 >>> >>>http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/23041.htm >>> >>>Including recent expansions which have not yet appeared in the >>>published document these come down to: >>> >>>ETWS CBS Message Identifier for earthquake warning message. >>>ETWS CBS Message Identifier for tsunami warning message. >>>ETWS CBS Message Identifier for earthquake and tsunami combined >>>warning message. >>>ETWS CBS Message Identifier for test message. >>>ETWS CBS Message Identifier for messages related to other emergency >>>types. >>>ETWS CBS Message Identifier for future extension. >> >> Thanks for these pointers. Interesting to see that there are >different >> categories being used compared to the CAP work. >> >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >>>regards >>> >>>Keith >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org >>>> [mailto:earlywarning-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James M. Polk >>>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 2:58 AM >>>> To: David Aylward (Comcare); 'Art Botterell'; >earlywarning@ietf.org; >>>> cap-list@incident.com >>>> Cc: Timothy Grapes; ltincher@evotecinc.com >>>> Subject: Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Categories >>>> >>>> All >>>> >>>> While I might agree with the reasons you have stated for the >>>vagueness >>>> of categories, I have to look at Henning's example as a >why I don't >>>> necessarily want "all warnings" from a geography. For example, he >>>> rightfully stated that just because I listed Tsunami warnings as >>>> something I care about, I should also care about the >chemical leaks, >>>> or Tornados in my area too. >>>> >>>> And there's the rub - who decides what warnings I get? >>>> >>>> If I subscribe to (conceivably) all warnings in my area, >do I really >>>> care when Dave has falen and can't reach his beer? Is that so >>>> monumental to anyone else? Local policy might dictate that yeah - >>>> everyone should do what it takes to get Dave his beer, but I don't >>>> necessarily need to care, therefore I will likely NOT want >>>to get this >>>> messages. >>>> >>>> Too many warning messages will create a "cry wolf" mode of me >>>> eventually believing none of them are useful, regardless of >>>what they >>>> say. I just won't reach for my (whatever) device if it's >just out of >>>> my reach. >>>> >>>> Perhaps general categories ought to be looked at, because >I think I >>>> can see exactly where Hannes is going, and I believe I'm >in the same >>>> ballpark as him thinking this ought to be a little more >>>specific for >>>> subscriptions. >>>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> At 03:41 PM 7/12/2009, David Aylward \(Comcare\) wrote: >>>> >Hannes: >>>> > >>>> >That is exactly what I was talking about, but CAP was not >>>> designed for that. >>>> >It is a >>>> >"broadcast to the world" standard. It is excellent for that >>>> purpose, >>>> >but not for the more refined purpose you are pursuing. >>>> > >>>> >The OASIS EDXL Distribution Element was designed for exactly >>>> that purpose: >>>> >machine to machine routing based on incident type, role >and similar >>>> >factors, and primarily as Art suggests in the "wholesale", >>>> inter-organization world. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >Organizations (and individuals connected to them) subscribe >>>> to "hear" >>>> >about incident types within certain geographies. >>>> > >>>> >We have talked in the past, Hannes, about "core services", >>>> the purpose >>>> >of them is to provision queries such as you suggest, and >>>> govern rights >>>> >to send and receive such messages. >>>> > >>>> >Lots of work has been done on these ideas outside of the >>>> >message-specific standards that they would enable. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >David K. Aylward, President >>>> >COMCARE Emergency Response Technology Group >>>> >1351 Independence Court, SE >>>> >Washington, DC 20003 >>>> >202.255.3215 (mobile) >>>> >202.295.0136 (office) >>>> >202.521.4047 (fax) >>>> >daylward@comcare.org >>>> > >>>> >This communication is intended for the use of the recipient >>>> to which it >>>> >is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal and/or >>>> privileged >>>> >information. Please contact us immediately if you are not >>>> the intended >>>> >recipient of this communication, and do not copy, >>>> distribute, or take >>>> >action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or >>>> >subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >-----Original Message----- >>>> >From: cap-list-bounces@lists.incident.com >>>> >[mailto:cap-list-bounces@lists.incident.com] On Behalf Of >>>> Art Botterell >>>> >Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:23 PM >>>> >To: earlywarning@ietf.org; cap-list@incident.com >>>> >Subject: Re: [CAP] Definition of Warning Categories >>>> > >>>> >I'm wondering whether it might be simpler, at least in the >>>> near term, >>>> >to let consumers subscribe to selected sources rather than >>>> to topical >>>> >categories. That pushes the question of message >>>authoritativeness / >>>> >jurisdiction /credibility out of the CAP infrastructure and >>>> into the >>>> >larger field of inter-agency and inter-jurisidictional >>>coordination, >>>> >where it more properly belongs. >>>> > >>>> >Taxonomies tend to be culturally loaded and can never be >>>> guaranteed to >>>> >be complete. Thus there's a real risk of "categorical >disconnects" >>>> >leading to missed alerts either because of differing >>>> interpretations of >>>> >categories or of unforeseen events that don't fit our >preconceived >>>> >categories. Maybe someday we'll have a reliable taxonomy of the >>>> >unexpected, but right now a degree of deliberate imprecision >>>> seems to >>>> >be the best we can do... and I sometimes wonder whether >>>even that is >>>> >more helpful than it is risky. >>>> > >>>> >- Art >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >On Jul 12, 2009, at 7/12/09 11:58 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > I should provide a bit more feedback about the >background to my >>>> > > question. >>>> > > >>>> > > If you only set the value in the category field for the >>>> purpose of >>>> > > human consumption then there is not really an interoperability >>>> > > issue. >>>> > > >>>> > > Now, with the work on >>>> >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-sipping-cap-03 >>>> > > we wanted to define an event package for SIP that >allows you to >>>> > > "subscribe" >>>> > > to certain type of events: you might indicate something like >>>> > > location and the type of events you are interested in. >>>> > > >>>> > > Now, the semantic of the category field suddently >>>> matters. With the >>>> > > individuals-to-citizen emergency services we tried to >>>> come up with a >>>> > > description of the emergency services categories, see RFC 5031. >>>> > > >>>> > > Ciao >>>> > > Hannes >>>> > >>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>> >This list is for public discussion of the Common Alerting >>>Protocol. >>>> >This list is NOT part of the formal record of the OASIS >>>> Emergency Management TC. >>>> >Comments for the OASIS record should be posted using the form at >>>> >http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/comments/form.php?wg_abb >>>> rev=emerge >>>> >ncy >>>> >CAP-list mailing list >>>> >CAP-list@lists.incident.com >>>> >http://lists.incident.com/mailman/listinfo/cap-list >>>> > >>>> >This list is not for announcements, advertising or >advocacy of any >>>> >particular program or product other than the CAP itself. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>> >earlywarning mailing list >>>> >earlywarning@ietf.org >>>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> earlywarning mailing list >>>> earlywarning@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>earlywarning mailing list >>>earlywarning@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> earlywarning mailing list >> earlywarning@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >> > > >_______________________________________________ >earlywarning mailing list >earlywarning@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning >
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Tony Rutkowski
- [earlywarning] Definition of Warning Categories Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… David Aylward (Comcare)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… David Aylward (Comcare)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… David Aylward (Comcare)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… James M. Polk
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… David Aylward (Comcare)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… creed
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Timothy Grapes
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Rex Buddenberg
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Rex Buddenberg
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Brian Rosen
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Timothy Grapes