Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Categories
"James M. Polk" <jmpolk@cisco.com> Mon, 13 July 2009 01:57 UTC
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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:58:07 -0500
To: "David Aylward (Comcare)" <daylward@comcare.org>, 'Art Botterell' <acb@incident.com>, earlywarning@ietf.org, cap-list@incident.com
From: "James M. Polk" <jmpolk@cisco.com>
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Cc: Timothy Grapes <tgrapes@evotecinc.com>, ltincher@evotecinc.com
Subject: Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Categories
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All While I might agree with the reasons you have stated for the vagueness of categories, I have to look at Henning's example as a why I don't necessarily want "all warnings" from a geography. For example, he rightfully stated that just because I listed Tsunami warnings as something I care about, I should also care about the chemical leaks, or Tornados in my area too. And there's the rub - who decides what warnings I get? If I subscribe to (conceivably) all warnings in my area, do I really care when Dave has falen and can't reach his beer? Is that so monumental to anyone else? Local policy might dictate that yeah - everyone should do what it takes to get Dave his beer, but I don't necessarily need to care, therefore I will likely NOT want to get this messages. Too many warning messages will create a "cry wolf" mode of me eventually believing none of them are useful, regardless of what they say. I just won't reach for my (whatever) device if it's just out of my reach. Perhaps general categories ought to be looked at, because I think I can see exactly where Hannes is going, and I believe I'm in the same ballpark as him thinking this ought to be a little more specific for subscriptions. James At 03:41 PM 7/12/2009, David Aylward \(Comcare\) wrote: >Hannes: > >That is exactly what I was talking about, but CAP was not designed for that. >It is a >"broadcast to the world" standard. It is excellent for that purpose, but >not for the more refined purpose you are pursuing. > >The OASIS EDXL Distribution Element was designed for exactly that purpose: >machine to machine routing based on incident type, role and similar factors, >and primarily as Art suggests in the "wholesale", inter-organization world. > > >Organizations (and individuals connected to them) subscribe to "hear" about >incident types within certain geographies. > >We have talked in the past, Hannes, about "core services", the purpose of >them is to provision queries such as you suggest, and govern rights to send >and receive such messages. > >Lots of work has been done on these ideas outside of the message-specific >standards that they would enable. > > >David K. Aylward, President >COMCARE Emergency Response Technology Group >1351 Independence Court, SE >Washington, DC 20003 >202.255.3215 (mobile) >202.295.0136 (office) >202.521.4047 (fax) >daylward@comcare.org > >This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which it is >addressed, and may contain confidential, personal and/or privileged >information. Please contact us immediately if you are not the intended >recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action >relying on it. Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, >should be deleted or destroyed. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cap-list-bounces@lists.incident.com >[mailto:cap-list-bounces@lists.incident.com] On Behalf Of Art Botterell >Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:23 PM >To: earlywarning@ietf.org; cap-list@incident.com >Subject: Re: [CAP] Definition of Warning Categories > >I'm wondering whether it might be simpler, at least in the near term, >to let consumers subscribe to selected sources rather than to topical >categories. That pushes the question of message authoritativeness / >jurisdiction /credibility out of the CAP infrastructure and into the >larger field of inter-agency and inter-jurisidictional coordination, >where it more properly belongs. > >Taxonomies tend to be culturally loaded and can never be guaranteed to >be complete. Thus there's a real risk of "categorical disconnects" >leading to missed alerts either because of differing interpretations >of categories or of unforeseen events that don't fit our preconceived >categories. Maybe someday we'll have a reliable taxonomy of the >unexpected, but right now a degree of deliberate imprecision seems to >be the best we can do... and I sometimes wonder whether even that is >more helpful than it is risky. > >- Art > > >On Jul 12, 2009, at 7/12/09 11:58 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > > > I should provide a bit more feedback about the background to my > > question. > > > > If you only set the value in the category field for the purpose of > > human > > consumption then there is not really an interoperability issue. > > > > Now, with the work on >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-sipping-cap-03 > > we wanted to define an event package for SIP that allows you to > > "subscribe" > > to certain type of events: you might indicate something like > > location and > > the type of events you are interested in. > > > > Now, the semantic of the category field suddently matters. With the > > individuals-to-citizen emergency services we tried to come up with a > > description of the emergency services categories, see RFC 5031. > > > > Ciao > > Hannes > >_______________________________________________ >This list is for public discussion of the Common Alerting Protocol. This >list is NOT part of the formal record of the OASIS Emergency Management TC. >Comments for the OASIS record should be posted using the form at >http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/comments/form.php?wg_abbrev=emergency >CAP-list mailing list >CAP-list@lists.incident.com >http://lists.incident.com/mailman/listinfo/cap-list > >This list is not for announcements, advertising or advocacy of any >particular program or product other than the CAP itself. > > > >_______________________________________________ >earlywarning mailing list >earlywarning@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/earlywarning
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Tony Rutkowski
- [earlywarning] Definition of Warning Categories Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… David Aylward (Comcare)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… David Aylward (Comcare)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… David Aylward (Comcare)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… James M. Polk
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… David Aylward (Comcare)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… creed
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Art Botterell
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Timothy Grapes
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Rex Buddenberg
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Rex Buddenberg
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Brian Rosen
- Re: [earlywarning] [CAP] Definition of Warning Ca… Timothy Grapes