Re: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00.txt

[Brian Rosen <[e-mail]>]

At least in my experience, the changes in the network take a lot of time to plan and implement.


The expert merely authorizes an entry in the sos registry for a service with a period in it.  When the document creating a sub-registry is published, that entry is removed from the sos registry, and included in the sub registry.  The net effect is no change, the service is exactly the same.

I asked IANA to change “federal” to “national”, but it hasn’t happened yet.  Please remember that the actual token value isn’t anything important.  It has to be consistently used to make cross-border calling work, but the actual content of the token could be “foo” and work as well as “national” or “federal”.  It’s not user visible and it’s not used in any other context other than the service sent to LoST.

Brian

> On Dec 22, 2016, at 8:57 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>  
> > There shouldn’t be any hurry to get a URN defined.  Deployments typically take years of planning, acquiring new systems, training, etc.
>  
> If you meant solely establishment of a *completely new* emergency service, then you might be right.
>  
> If you (also) meant that there was no hurry for obtaining emergency URNs for any emergency services *already available via public switched telephony network*, then I disagree.
>  
> Reasons:
> - according to RFC 5031, emergency services are identified by emergency URNs (i.e. an URN with 'sos' service type)
> - an operator of a 3GPP specified SIP based network offering voice services needs to be able to identify any emergency service specified in the country of its SIP based network, since:
>                 - normally, the user agent sets the Request-URI of the initial INVITE request to a emergency URN identifying the requested emergency service and this emergency URN is input to routing decisions in the SIP based network.
>                 - in some cases, the user agent can set the Request-URI of the initial INVITE request to a TEL URI with an emergency number. In such case, the edge of the SIP based network changes the Request-URI to an emergency URN appropriate for the particular emergency number in the TEL URI and, again, this emergency URN is input to routing decisions in the SIP based network.
>                 - any emergency service which a user can reach via a public switched telephony network in a country has to be reachable via SIP based network in the same country too.
>  
> Today, some operators do not offer emergency services via 3GPP specified SIP based network and steer UEs to use 3GPP specified circuit switched network, but that only works as long as the 3GPP specified circuit switched network is available, This will be less-and-less frequent as there is a trend of reusing radio resources of 3GPP specified circuit switched network for 3GPP specified SIP based network.
>  
> Therefore, an operator rolling out voice service using 3GPP specified SIP based network needs to have emergency URNs for any emergency service *already available via public switched telephony network*, at the time of the full scale rollout.
>  
> So, emergency URNs for any emergency services *already available via public switched telephony network* are needed *urgently*.
>  
> > If there is a time crunch, the expert can authorize a temporary registration as we did with police.national until the sub registry document is published.
>  
> Firstly, is the process of the "temporary" IANA registration described anywhere? It does not seem to be mentioned in RFC 5031, RFC 7163 or the draft.
>  
> Secondly, I can see that IANA now maintains the "urn:service:sos.police.municipal" URN and "urn:service:sos.police.federal" URN athttp://www.iana.org/assignments/urn-serviceid-labels/urn-serviceid-labels.xhtml <http://www.iana.org/assignments/urn-serviceid-labels/urn-serviceid-labels.xhtml>
>  
> The "urn:service:sos.police.municipal" URN is OK, thanks.
>  
> The "urn:service:sos.police.federal" URN is strange -  I asked for "urn:service:sos.police.national", we discussed it below and you seemed to agree that "urn:service:sos.police.national" is more appropriate than "sos.police.federal", but IANA still has "urn:service:sos.police.federal" URN.
>  
> Can "urn:service:sos.police.federal" be changed to "urn:service:sos.police.national" in IANA? Thanks.
>  
> Kind regards
>  
> Ivo Sedlacek
>  
> From: Brian Rosen [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>] 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 3:50 PM
> To: Ivo Sedlacek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: ECRIT <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00.txt
>  
> There shouldn’t be any hurry to get a URN defined.  Deployments typically take years of planning, acquiring new systems, training, etc.
> If there is a time crunch, the expert can authorize a temporary registration as we did with police.national until the sub registry document is published.
>  
> Most services won’t need this two level registration.
>  
> Brian
>  
> On Dec 21, 2016, at 1:50 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  
> > You need a document with IANA considerations to create a registry, but an INFO will do.
>  
> Do you mean an RFC?
>  
> That makes getting emergency URN a lot toughter than today and pretty much prevents easy and quick deployment of new emergency services, which are subservices of an existing emergency service.
>  
> Kind regards
>  
> Ivo
>  
>  
>  
> From: Brian Rosen [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 5:43 PM
> To: Ivo Sedlacek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: ECRIT <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00.txt
>  
> I think it’s an issue of whether we expect a number of registrations of subfoos.  If there is only 1 maybe not bother, but if we expect several, create the sub registry.  The expert can help guide.
>  
> You need a document with IANA considerations to create a registry, but an INFO will do.
>  
> The policy for the sub registry would be specified in that document.  I specified expert review in these 3. 
>  
> Brian
>  
> On Dec 20, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  
> Hello,
>  
> > Although the ABNF allows it, I think that it’s much cleaner to have the separate registries.  I will note that we have allowed the registration in
> > the existing registry, although if/when this document is published, we will remove it from the main sos registry and put it in the police sub registry.
>  
> How would it work for other services?
>  
> Imagine that a person X registers
>  
>                 urn:service.sos.foo
>  
> and later on a person Y would like to register:
>  
>                 urn:service.sos.foo.subfoo1
>                                and
>                 urn:service.sos.foo.subfoo2
>  
> What would the IANA registration policy for request to establish sub-registry of urn:service.sos.foo?
> And what would the IANA registration policy be for new entries in the urn:service.sos.foo subregistry?
>  
> > However, I do think “national” is actually a better token for this service, and I will change it in the next version.  
>  
> Thanks.
>  
> Kind regards
>  
> Ivo
>  
>  
>  
> From: Brian Rosen [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 4:04 PM
> To: Ivo Sedlacek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: ECRIT <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00.txt
>  
> Thanks for your comments.
>  
> Although the ABNF allows it, I think that it’s much cleaner to have the separate registries.  I will note that we have allowed the registration in the existing registry, although if/when this document is published, we will remove it from the main sos registry and put it in the police sub registry.  I have consulted with IANA on this.
>  
> I was careful to note that the token is NOT the name of the service, and trying to actually have the token be the actual name of the service will lead to many, many registrations that are effectively duplicates of one another.  Any police force which has true national scope would use the same token.  In the US, for example, it’s the FBI.
>  
> However, I do think “national” is actually a better token for this service, and I will change it in the next version.  However, I would not want to see a registration for the FBI, nor any other specific name for a national police force.  Having said that, in many countries, there are several national police forces with specialized responsibilities.  In the U.S., we have U.S. Marshalls, Drug Enforcement Agency, Immigration and Customs. Secret Service, and several others.  We don’t have emergency calling to them, so we don’t need sos tokens for them, but there are countries where there are more than one national police that do have emergency numbers and we will need tokens for them.  I would not want a “city” token instead of “municipal”.
>  
> At one point I was thinking of explicitly referencing the “A” levels from PIDF-LO for these tokens (so “A1” instead of “Provincial” and A2 instead of “Municipal”), but eventually decided that since we didn’t have A levels for all the tokens we would need that it didn’t make sense to use the A levels as the token name.  But I intended the tokens to be used that way.
>  
> Brian
>  
> On Dec 20, 2016, at 8:58 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  
> Hello,
>  
> Two comments to the draft:
>  
> Comment-1:
> rfc5031 defines sub-services using the following ABNF where several sub-services can be included in a service URN.
>  
>  
>      service-URN  = "URN:service:" service
>     service      = top-level *("." sub-service)
>      top-level    = let-dig [ *25let-dig-hyp let-dig ]
>      sub-service  = let-dig [ *let-dig-hyp let-dig ]
>      let-dig-hyp  = let-dig / "-"
>      let-dig      = ALPHA / DIGIT
>      ALPHA        = %x41-5A / %x61-7A   ; A-Z / a-z
>      DIGIT        = %x30-39 ; 0-9
>  
> rfc7163 allows registration of additional sub-services of the service URN with the 'sos' service type using expert review.
>  
> Thus, registration of sub-services under urn:service.sos.police (under urn:service.sos.ambulance, and under urn:service.sos.fire) is possible already now and there should be no need to define new subregistries.
>  
> Comment-2:
>  
> The proposed new police emergency services do not address the needs of the Czech republic as:
> - Czech republic defines emergency service of national police; and
> - Czech republic is not a federation of states or provinces (and thus "federal" does not fit).
> Proposal: change "federal" to "national".
>  
> Kind regards
>  
> Ivo Sedlacek
>  
>  
> From: Ecrit [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of Brian Rosen
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 9:33 PM
> To: ECRIT <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Subject: [Ecrit] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00.txt
>  
> FYI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
>  
> From: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00.txt
> Date: December 16, 2016 at 3:31:51 PM EST
> To: <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Reply-To: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> 
> 
>        Title           : A Subregistry for urn:service:sos.police, fire and ambulance
>        Author          : Brian Rosen
>             Filename        : draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00.txt
>             Pages           : 5
>             Date            : 2016-12-16
> 
> Abstract:
>   In most countries, there are multiple kinds of police forces.
>   RFC5031 defines a "Service URN" which is used to route emergency
>   calls.  The urn has a sub registry for different kinds of emergency
>   services that may be reached from different telephone numbers or
>   service numbers (as opposed to a single number like 112).  In many
>   countries, the "police" service is not a single service, but more
>   than one service where the service area and/or types of emergencies
>   they respond to are different.  In some countries there are multiple
>   ambulance services.  This document defines sub registries for
>   urn:service:sos.police, urn:service:sos.ambulance and, for
>   completeness, urn:service:sos.fire.  It also provides an initial set
>   of entries for these sub registries.  These services are in addition
>   to the base urn:service:sos.police, etc. services.
> 
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries/>
> 
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-ecrit-service-urn-subregistries-00>
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/>
> 
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