Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-15 - ISSUE 7
Az Mankin <azmankin@gmail.com> Wed, 02 November 2016 18:36 UTC
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From: Az Mankin <azmankin@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 11:36:02 -0700
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To: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-15 - ISSUE 7
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Ivo, Invoking IETF traditions here: send text. That is, give us a specific proposed edit to the existing text. Allison On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 1:36 AM, Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com> wrote: > Randall, > > None of those statements quoted by you state "attach X to SIP message > means ...." > > The statements nearest to stating "attach X to SIP message means ...." are > --------- > An In-Vehicle System (IVS) transmits an MSD (see Section 5) by > encoding it per Annex A of EN 15722 [msd] and attaching it to a SIP > message as a MIME body part per [RFC7852]. > --------- > and > --------- > A PSAP or IVS transmits a metadata/control object (see Section 9) by > encoding it per the description in this document and attaching it to > a SIP message as a MIME body part per [RFC7852]. > --------- > but RFC7852 does not say "attach X to SIP message means ...." either. > > What statements of RFC7852 did you intend to refer to in the statements > above? > > PS: I have been following this discussion for quite some time. If I do NOT > understand what "attach X to SIP message" means, how can a reader who has > NOT followed this discussion understand it? > > Kind regards > > Ivo > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randall Gellens [mailto:rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org] > Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 4:50 PM > To: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com>; Paul Kyzivat < > pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>; ecrit@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-15 - ISSUE 7 > > Hi Ivo, > > It is explained in the same section. A few paragraphs up it says: > > An In-Vehicle System (IVS) transmits an MSD (see Section 5) by > encoding it per Annex A of EN 15722 [msd] and attaching it to a SIP > message as a MIME body part per [RFC7852]. > > [....] > > A PSAP or IVS transmits a metadata/control object (see Section 9) by > encoding it per the description in this document and attaching it to > a SIP message as a MIME body part per [RFC7852]. > > It also makes clear that the body part is in a multipart and which > Content-Disposition is used: > > An MSD or a metadata/control block is always enclosed in a multipart > (normally multipart/mixed) body part (even if it would otherwise be > the only body part in the SIP message), since as of the date of this > document, the use of Content-ID as a SIP header field is not defined > (while it is defined for use as a MIME header field). > > A body part containing an MSD or metadata/control object has a > Content-Disposition header field value containing "By-Reference". > > It later uses "attach" as short-hand for the process described above: > > An In-Vehicle System (IVS) initiating an NG-eCall attaches an MSD to > the initial INVITE and optionally attaches a metadata/control object > informing the PSAP of its capabilities. > > --Randy > > At 2:01 PM +0000 11/1/16, Ivo Sedlacek wrote: > > > Hello Paul, > > > > Your interpretation of "attach X to SIP message" makes sense to me. > > > > However, I do not see a statement "attach X to SIP message means > > ...." in the draft. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Ivo > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > > Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 1:49 PM > > To: ecrit@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-15 - > > ISSUE 7 > > > > On 11/1/16 3:05 AM, Ivo Sedlacek wrote: > >> Randall, > >> > >> so, what does "attach" mean if it does not meant > >> Content-Disposition: attachment? > > > > > > IMO "attach X (to a sip message) means to package X as a mime body > > part and include it in the body of the message. That in turn means > > either: > > - make it the complete body of the message if there are no other > > parts, and if it can validly be done that way; > > > > - include it as a subordinate body part within a multipart/mixed that > > it the outer part of the body of the message. > > > > In any case, it may then be necessary to do something more to ensure > > that the recipient will know what is the intent of the body part. In > > some cases this may be simply tagging it with appropriate content-type > > and content-disposition. In other cases it may also require including > > some sort of reference to it via a header field in the message or > > somewhere in one of the other body parts. > > > > That is a "general" answer. It needs to be defined in detail for each > case. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > >> Kind regards > >> > >> Ivo > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Randall Gellens [mailto:rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org] > >> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 4:52 PM > >> To: Ivo Sedlacek <ivo.sedlacek@ericsson.com> > >> Subject: RE: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-15 - > >> ISSUE > >> 7 > >> > >> At 7:04 AM +0000 10/31/16, Ivo Sedlacek wrote: > >> > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> > >>>> > > >> > ISSUE 7 > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > > >> > section 6 - "The IVS then attaches an updated MSD to a > SIP > >>>> > > >> > INFO request and sends it within the dialog." - > >>>> what is meant by > >>>> > > >> > "attaching MSD to SIP INFO request"? > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> I think that's made abundantly clear in the multiple > earlier > >>>> > > >> instances in the same section that say "as a MIME body > part". > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > I do not really know what "attach body to SIP request" > means. > >>>> > > > Likely, other readers will not know it either. > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > A reference to a section defining how to "attach body to > > >>> SIP request" > >>>> > > > would help. > >>>> > > > >>>> > > It's the same section, just a little bit before. > >>>> > > >>>> > I assume you refer -19 text stating: "[RFC7852] establishes a > >>>> general > mechanism for attaching blocks of > >>>> > data to a SIP emergency call." > >>>> > >>>> If you look seven paragraphs above the paragraph in question > >>>> (same section), you'll see: > >>>> > >>>> A PSAP or IVS transmits a metadata/control object (see Section > 9) by > >>>> encoding it per the description in this document and attaching > it to > >>>> a SIP message as a MIME body part per [RFC7852]. > >>>> > >>>> Then, three paragraphs later (four paragraphs above the paragraph > >>>> in > >>>> question) it uses "attach" again: > >>>> > >>>> An In-Vehicle System (IVS) initiating an NG-eCall attaches an > MSD to > >>>> the initial INVITE and optionally attaches a metadata/control > object > >>>> informing the PSAP of its capabilities. > >>>> > >>>> The surrounding text makes it clear that these are "attached" as > >>>> body parts in the SIP message. > >>> > >>> The above still talks about "attaching"/"attaches" without > >>> explaining what it means. > >>> > >>> It can be easily misunderstood to refer to inclusion of a body > >>> part with Content-Disposition "attachment" in a SIP message. > >> > >> Not so easily misunderstood, since the text repeatedly makes it very > >> clear which Content-Disposition value to use. > >> > >> -- > >> Randall Gellens > >> Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > >> -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Perhaps the > >> real reason why we have always been able to champion free speech in > >> this country is that we know perfectly well that hardly anybody has > >> got anything to say, and that no one will listen to anyone > >> that has. -- Editorial, Daily Mail [British Paper, date unknown] > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ecrit mailing list > >> Ecrit@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ecrit mailing list > > Ecrit@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ecrit mailing list > > Ecrit@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit > > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- If the facts don't > fit the theory, change the facts. > --Albert Einstein > > _______________________________________________ > Ecrit mailing list > Ecrit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit >
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Ivo Sedlacek
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Ivo Sedlacek
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Ivo Sedlacek
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Ivo Sedlacek
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Az Mankin
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Ivo Sedlacek
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Ivo Sedlacek
- Re: [Ecrit] Ivo's review of draft-ietf-ecrit-ecal… Christer Holmberg