Re: [Eligibility-discuss] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-eligibility-expand-06.txt

[Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for reading the draft carefully. Comments in line.

On 23-Oct-20 02:50, Victor Kuarsingh wrote:
> Brian et al,
> 
> I had been a bit absent from the discussion so my input here may have been already considered but I will make the point anyway.  I note this with my Nomcom Chair and previous voting member hat on.
> 
> I realize path 3 is vector that can be mechanically evaluated, and my be agreed to by the list/group.  However, my concerns are: 
> (1) it can result in people being allowed into the pool which are unfamiliar with IETF community members whom are nominees for the positions

Have we any assurance that remote attendance doesn't lead to the same problem? Or to reverse the argument, our most important interactions are by email, since consensus decisions are based on email, and therefore knowledge of individuals via email is arguably *more* important than face-to-face observation.

I'd also observe that this is a one or two year experiment, so if the results are bad they will not persist.

> (2) listed as an author can include folks who may not have had any participation in the IETF at all (just listed)

That shouldn't happen, of course, but I agree it could happen. However, under the present system, and especially with remote meetings, registration and participation can be bogus too (i.e. just listed).

> Both of these issues (related to each other) can make it difficult for that person to participate in an adequate way with respect to the following duties 
> - Driving / contributing the questionnaire 
> - Driving / contributing to interview questions 
> - Conducting interviews (where adaptive questions may be needed for evaluation)
> - Participating in the active discussion where nominee attributes abilities and group/body needs are discuss (with adequate context) 

Yes, all of that could happen, but I assume that in a NomCom of ten people, having one or two such members would be unpleasant but survivable.

> 
> Item (2) above can also be used as a vector to introduce people into the Nomcom whom are not primarily focused on the IETF work, but seeking selection in the Nomcom itself (not for the test period since its likely too late for that), but if adopted over time.   One can say this is true for path 1, but the bar is much higher given the need to actually attend (in-person or remotely) which exposes folks in some cases to outside working group activities (increasing familiarity with people, roles, and teams). 

Well, speaking only for myself, I don't think the bar is higher. I'm not saying there are never passengers in RFC author lists, but I don't think it's endemic. And similarly, we certainly have passengers at meetings, but again it's not endemic.
 
> Although not every member of the Nomcom body is familiar with all rules and/or nominees, but by extending the pool too far (far == folks likely to be less familiar with the people, teams, groups, work), we can add risk that there can be some areas represented by enough (or anybody) on the Nomcom body outside of Liaisons and advisors.  If this is the result, the Chair may need to work harder to provide context, drive questions, promote adequate discussion which then, in my opinion, puts too much onus on the chair (and causes potentially natural bias)

That's true, but again...
 
> However, I do think the experiment is a good approach to the challenge we face.

... we have to try *something*, I think.

Regards,
    Brian


> 
> regards,
> 
> Victor K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:18 PM Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi,
> 
>     This version has been updated (with advice from Bron) according to what we've understood of the discussions since the previous version, plus today's news:
> 
>     * Allowed for IETF 110 decision
>     * Resolved open issue (see the previous point)
>     * Removed "future work" section (as suggested on the list)
>     * Editorial improvements
> 
>         Brian + Stephen
> 
>     -------- Forwarded Message --------
>     Subject: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-eligibility-expand-06.txt
>     Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:01:38 -0700
>     From: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     Reply-To: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     To: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> 
> 
>     A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> 
> 
>             Title           : Additional Criteria for Nominating Committee Eligibility
>             Authors         : Brian E. Carpenter
>                               Stephen Farrell
>             Filename        : draft-carpenter-eligibility-expand-06.txt
>             Pages           : 8
>             Date            : 2020-10-13
> 
>     Abstract:
>        This document defines a process experiment under RFC 3933 that
>        temporarily updates the criteria for qualifying volunteers to
>        participate in the IETF Nominating Committee.  It therefore also
>        updates the criteria for qualifying signatories to a community recall
>        petition.  The purpose is to make the criteria more flexible in view
>        of increasing remote participation in the IETF and a reduction in
>        face-to-face meetings.  The experiment is of fixed duration and will
>        apply to one, or at most two, Nominating Committee cycles.  This
>        document temporarily varies the rules in RFC 8713.
> 
> 
>     The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-eligibility-expand/
> 
>     There is also an HTML version available at:
>     https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-eligibility-expand-06.html
> 
>     A diff from the previous version is available at:
>     https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-carpenter-eligibility-expand-06
> 
> 
>     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>     until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org>.
> 
>     Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>     ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
> 
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