Re: [Emo-dir] Newcomer deterrence and abuse

["Salz, Rich" <[e-mail]>]

Not a chair, but involved in EMODIR, newcomers planning, etc.

We're aware of this, and think the tools team will handle it appropriately.

On 6/4/22, 10:40 AM, "John C Klensin" <[e-mail]> wrote:

    Hi.

    I assume that at least some of you have been following the
    recent threads on  the IETF discussion list and tools-discuss
    about ways in which our many of our current collection of web
    pages -- the information that is not on them and navigation
    among them -- could act as a deterrent to people who have gotten
    pointers to IETF activities and who might, if not deterred,
    become newcomers and then useful contributors.  Even if more
    experienced people encounter abuse or other issues they would
    like to discuss or report, missing information (as discussed in
    those threads) seems more likely to encourage frustration and
    walking away from the IETF rather than, e.g., trying to find a
    tutorial or guide or reach out to people in the leadership who
    might be able to untangle things.

    I wanted to "officially" bring those issues to the attention of
    this Directorate because, IMO, the problems are ultimately
    Outreach and Education ones: if the IETF's systems and
    difficulty navigating them chase people away, then no amount of
    education or mentoring is going to help much at all.  And, of
    course, if the chased-away people reinforce the rumor that,
    despite claims to the contrary, the IETF is basically a small
    collection of in-groups that is hostile to anyone who shows up
    who is not already connected, e.g., to a company that is already
    sending other participants.

    thanks,
       john

    p.s. To help make the point, while the "about" section of your
    list description page is close to what I'd like to see more
    generally, including a link as to where to go for more
    information, it has the same issue with "run by" of all of those
    other pages. The group description to which it points is really
    excellent except that, if someone actually wanted to contact,
    e.g., the chairs, there are no addresses, only links to profile
    pages that do not, in general, contain them.   In Greg's and
    Karen's cases, there are at least email addresses on the profile
    pages, but, unless sweeping improvements have been made in the
    last week or so, that does not seem to be the case in general.



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