Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext

Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> Mon, 08 September 2014 21:35 UTC

Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: endymail@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: endymail@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 709021A032F for <endymail@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3fyv3nwwBTE8 for <endymail@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:35:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qg0-x235.google.com (mail-qg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B39B1A03C0 for <endymail@ietf.org>; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:35:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qg0-f53.google.com with SMTP id z107so15997578qgd.40 for <endymail@ietf.org>; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=toPQ/T1dt0TLe4y7g6TYpUfSoqgLcqPS7DHW9gzfDj0=; b=IZ6bccLy0nMP9eW5XPD8izDtCFw1BoAmYUGHzvPoP7fLFWXaUXynX4DlvZpiXVhhW+ QzDdoOTYG8D45N6DkDOJYvw+1/vPN3r2UP2+5friA8/JeCT5b4234Bg2lAZVLA6/TRGN sXEV4jjPJqQ1zO7fkPoTEbuspd1QuXvoiNQGTsgNsunJ8AmYN4eNXFoVyLUS3NmyZL4N IHm820haeH5pOILHDSwq+YoG81cdubgvmhQXC8FiSsWdUci9AhKYiqcN4DDSeRDyhl4N F2t2VbqpYN3TF0e9c577qWeb/1nisDmU8tP7iBKcxmT6OX/e/Ozm0C2pR+wWZr24PXwr hTwQ==
X-Received: by 10.224.15.201 with SMTP id l9mr45671560qaa.27.1410212102304; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [33.140.142.57] ([172.56.22.212]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id r7sm1347329qai.15.2014.09.08.14.34.59 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9EC2142D-ABE8-4B34-B787-0A3C96ABB707
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: iPad Mail (11B651)
In-Reply-To: <CABa8R6u6JKtSPxc__XoffrMLxka6q+KqE43dbgQrSK3xPtZScw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 17:34:59 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <2F64C55C-C3D3-4DA3-8037-1D2A9077922A@gmail.com>
References: <540AABF8.8000605@cisco.com> <540C5BE1.6010405@qti.qualcomm.com> <540C7399.3060901@cisco.com> <CAMm+LwgsiJwjngoKcHsaP+mF=yArtx_h_YcGL98-xRb7AZ8ZAA@mail.gmail.com> <CABa8R6u6JKtSPxc__XoffrMLxka6q+KqE43dbgQrSK3xPtZScw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Brandon Long <blong@google.com>
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/endymail/0cdsJjJHMx-cdr8c12j9n-BCdn8
Cc: Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, endymail <endymail@ietf.org>, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext
X-BeenThere: endymail@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <endymail.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/endymail>, <mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/endymail/>
List-Post: <mailto:endymail@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/endymail>, <mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 21:35:06 -0000

TLS has enabled e-commerce which is generally held responsible for adding an extra trillion dollars a year to global GDP.

Email security is not going to be so dramatic but it allows a lot of the holes in the e-commerce interface to be filled in. And that could be worth a few percent extra growth of e-commerce.

Lets say it is 1 percent, or rather, lets say that we can make people think it is 1 percent. That is ten billion dollars a year.

1% of that is a hundred million and we can buy a lot of servers and other infrastructure with that.


If we get the security in the specs we can easily make transactions machine readable.


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 8, 2014, at 5:13 PM, Brandon Long <blong@google.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:
>> > Let's talk constraints for a moment.  Does the problem get easier if we
>> > say, “let's not even attempt to address transactional email”, and focus
>> > exclusively on h2h?  Also, is it a goal to completely do away with
>> > spam?  Is that a non-goal?
>> 
>> Transactional mail is the easiest to do and has the biggest payoff. So
>> no, not doing it does not help in the slightest.
>> 
>> I don't think we are going to be using this scheme to complete
>> transactions. But it has to be possible to use it for applications
>> such as:
>> 
>> * Correspondence between lawyers and clients.
>> * Sending statements for bank and brokerage accounts.
>> * Sending invoices.
> 
> In particular, it would be great if we could "solve" the problem such that entities are willing to send things via email that they currently won't.  For example, my bank won't send me a copy of my monthly statement to my email address, only a notification to look at it on their site.  This "hole" seems to be the largest in the email as the solution to paperless postal mail.
> 
> Brandon