Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext
Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com> Sun, 07 September 2014 14:13 UTC
Return-Path: <dcrocker@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: endymail@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: endymail@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1])
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D25E1A04B7
for <endymail@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9,
DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1,
FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44])
by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id OHRYjFJ0XaEX for <endymail@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:13:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qg0-x22d.google.com (mail-qg0-x22d.google.com
[IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22d])
(using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7C941A04C5
for <endymail@ietf.org>; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id j107so1195516qga.18
for <endymail@ietf.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:13:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject
:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
bh=MkBrfMdShNcW4AC4/cnhv6ET6NnjodIBEMDp+ayTWBo=;
b=QVDrKHRSzyvzeoy3+4+hb9VrLzezBWWgL9AA00zEJkB4dNZAqWy5ht+ekd4fuewZo7
VNkS7pRcOo30Bxp4IdwykRmrUEAxdEtt+yIcn83VPmye6IIplOQm9kzZfpB1MftTbfeB
uJ+sYD1v2DcN9S5FntqKaZl6px0p7Zvx6bJJ0midJg25wFYwEez2tz/sM7ALBB0+eA0e
RBQPp8BRtGDNHC/wxBvLm8AHFzmZqd4q/kqcp14kf+0xB2WpZE4In6fXGhGqya+vSJ75
mTpK8tW1aKFNZVxLemRPC1f1vxCEOUq8LL6/jHIdTjVDHCyQfB/me8Pqb1idD8YRdwVf
fh8Q==
X-Received: by 10.229.68.131 with SMTP id v3mr34229955qci.10.1410099184883;
Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:13:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-8-156.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net.
[76.218.8.156])
by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w9sm5474134qad.31.2014.09.07.07.13.03
for <multiple recipients>
(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:13:04 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <540C6731.7040805@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 07:09:53 -0700
From: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64;
rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>
References: <540AABF8.8000605@cisco.com> <540C5BE1.6010405@qti.qualcomm.com>
In-Reply-To: <540C5BE1.6010405@qti.qualcomm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/endymail/52N4LR4DRz-QYePQl1wXzpGnvlM
Cc: endymail@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext
X-BeenThere: endymail@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <endymail.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/endymail>,
<mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/endymail/>
List-Post: <mailto:endymail@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/endymail>,
<mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 14:13:12 -0000
On 9/7/2014 6:21 AM, Pete Resnick wrote: > Obviously doing e2e > crypto gets you signatures. No it doesn't. As a matter of practice, it probably will, but the technology does not require it. Sigs are an entirely independent action when doing object encryption. > Since we are blue-skying here, I think it is > perfectly plausible to say, "If you want to send me e2e encrypted > messages, you also have to send me signed messages, So you want to eliminate anonymous communications? Anonymity has historical importance for some kinds of communication. > and you don't or > your signature is not in my contacts list already, your encrypted mail > is going to bounce." I think it's possible that in the fullness of time, > many users go to a contact-list model of email (a la IM) where the mail > simply bounces unless it has a signature that is already in the contacts > list. The Procrustean bed always makes things simpler, and with only a few, uhhh... shortcomings. My point is not that signing is bad or checking against address books is bad, but that mandating such things constrains legitimate communication in important ways. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
- [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Eliot Lear
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Eliot Lear
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext John Levine
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Pete Resnick
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Dave Crocker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Pete Resnick
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Eliot Lear
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Dave Crocker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Dave Crocker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Dave Crocker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext John Levine
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Watson Ladd
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext John Levine
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Eliot Lear
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [Endymail] where's the end, was spam versus c… John Levine
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Endymail] where's the end, was spam versus c… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Endymail] where's the end, was spam versus c… John R Levine
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Pete Resnick
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext John R Levine
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Werner Koch
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Brandon Long
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Leo Vegoda
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Dave Crocker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext John R Levine
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Dave Crocker
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext John R Levine
- Re: [Endymail] spam versus cleartext Dave Crocker