Re: [Endymail] Hashes of key as addresses

Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> Fri, 05 September 2014 22:10 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org>
X-Original-To: endymail@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: endymail@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 579F61A0392 for <endymail@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pV2vvbdwyqdS for <endymail@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mournblade.imrryr.org (mournblade.imrryr.org [38.117.134.19]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CA101A0393 for <endymail@ietf.org>; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mournblade.imrryr.org (Postfix, from userid 1034) id 38F082AB2C0; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 22:10:12 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 22:10:12 +0000
From: Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org>
To: endymail <endymail@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20140905221012.GC26920@mournblade.imrryr.org>
References: <CAMm+LwimhUi5uZAgm9erYtMJ9-o6+x__344TwKH4-Pa_-mckfg@mail.gmail.com> <20140829091133.GA25723@yeono.kjorling.se> <CAMm+LwhSYm7e4WevDKqewGuOk=O_Zd7dKa1ctfvBzyF3jz4jtg@mail.gmail.com> <20140904132955.GN603@yeono.kjorling.se> <20140905192712.XG2Xmr5N%sdaoden@yandex.com> <20140905212537.GY26920@mournblade.imrryr.org> <CAMm+LwgF825P+k9tNoaaw5YY+_dkGZBgOAcx9KF=f23ouCJLZQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAMm+LwgF825P+k9tNoaaw5YY+_dkGZBgOAcx9KF=f23ouCJLZQ@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/endymail/mJ1kAdKbf38sLpE0VbecGWpc6xY
Subject: Re: [Endymail] Hashes of key as addresses
X-BeenThere: endymail@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: endymail <endymail@ietf.org>
List-Id: <endymail.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/endymail>, <mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/endymail/>
List-Post: <mailto:endymail@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/endymail>, <mailto:endymail-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 22:10:16 -0000

On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 05:59:12PM -0400, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:

> > SMTP is not that latency sensitive.  Because SMTP starts in cleartext,
> > servers can and do refuse to STARTTLS with clients they are going
> > to reject due to poor IP reputation.
> >
> > There are other advantages.  For example, the server learns the
> > client's EHLO name before TLS, allowing it to base TLS policy (like
> > requests for the client certificate) on the the client's EHLO name.
> > And of course clients that fail to interoperably negotiate TLS can
> > fall back to cleartext.
> >
> > All told, STARTTLS is a good fit for SMTP, which unlike HTTP is
> > not nearly as sensitive to latency.
> 
> Very good points and points that designers of DNS privacy approaches
> would do to bear in mind. Any protocol that has a server performing a
> public key transaction without any form of authentication on the
> request is going to end up being killed by DoS.

Postfix can also rate limit run-away clients that rapidly create
uncached sessions, rather than reuse established sessions.  This
behaviour can be "stress-dependent", when the service process limit
has recently been reached.  While not widely deployed by default,
such counter-measures are good to have up one's sleeve.

> So the trick is to pull the authentication out of the DNS query loop
> so it can be amortized.

Similiar ammortization ideas in DJB's MinimaLT, suggestions for
short-term re-use of ECDH exponents with 25519, ...  Also in much
more mundane process-reuse in Postfix, where each service handles
100 or so requests by default before exiting, ammortizing start-up
cost.

-- 
	Viktor.