Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding...
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Sun, 28 December 2014 19:56 UTC
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Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 19:57:23 +0000
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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To: Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>
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Cc: errata-design@rfc-editor.org, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
Subject: Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding...
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On 28/12/14 19:50, Pete Resnick wrote: > I like Stephen's model in principle, but I think it presumes a different > world than the one we live in. We have chatted on occasion about doing > standards in a more "githubby" way, where we would develop them in a > more fluid repository and for which changes are not such a big deal. I'm > all for that. But right now, we are in a world where RFCs are immutable > documents that are on the other side of a solid (though not very high) > wall from where we do the development of them, with scant little way for > that more fluid style of work. Since we're not undertaking changing the > base, I don't think it makes sense to changing the model that > drastically for the errata just yet. > > I'm OK with an generic "commentary" wiki without authority, but I still > want some way to take editorial nonsense and "vote them off the island" > to send them over to the RFC Editor to stick with the immutable > document. Similarly, things that get voted as "vitally important" should > also get flagged to the RFC Editor to put a marker in/with the immutable > document so that people get notice of it. I'm OK with all of that (and > other comments) remaining in the wiki. > > But let's not try to get rid of the wall just now, since I fear that we > will never converge. I don't get your concern Pete, what bad thing might happen if we took the route I outlined? In case it helps, I'd be fine to define the set of folks allowed vote comments up/down as being those with a datatracker a/c, but I'm not sure if that touches on your concern. S. > > pr > > On 12/28/14 1:26 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > >> On 28/12/14 18:42, Barry Leiba wrote: >> >>> Pete has stated my position very well indeed. >>> >> Close to mine too. But not quite identical. >> >> I'd differ in that I think we don't need to classify what >> kinds of commentary an RFC might attract ahead of time, >> and it'd be a mistake to try as we'd get it wrong. So the >> concept of marking comments as editorial, technical, change >> request, etc is broken. I'd also prefer if we can have the >> community establish which comments are important and not >> have to depend on, or bother, anyone in "authority." Voting >> up/down should work just fine for all kinds of comments I >> reckon. Those that are really important will bubble up and >> get known. >> >> Lastly, there are also many unimportant RFCs for which I >> don't think any of us ought spend time, regardless of whether >> or not a comment identifies a real interop issue. For example, >> I don't believe there are any implementations of RFC 3185, >> (I'm a co-author, it was a tool that would have been needed >> for a road-not-taken by Diameter,) and there don't appear to >> be any interesting citations to it either from RFCs, or >> according to google scholar - so we ought not bother to do >> anything at all if someone files an erratum or any kind of >> comment on that - and if the idea in that RFC ever does get >> important again then we can go back and fix our comment >> dispositions later anyway. >> >> The above assumes a basic level of comment-spam handling >> but that can also be somewhat automated, e.g. there's an >> anti-spam plugin for wordpress that is their most popular >> plugin. I don't know what that does, but I'll bet a beer we >> can get a long way with such existing tooling, whether >> that one or some other. >> >> Cheers, >> S. >> >> >> >>> Barry >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Pete Resnick >>> <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 12/23/14 1:04 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >>>> >>>>> The part I want to go away is that each posted erratum consumes >>>>> effort for folks other than the poster. (Incl. me:-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> A slight addendum to this, with which Stephen may agree or disagree: >>>> >>>> I don't want errata to consume time and effort for folks other than >>>> those >>>> who want to spend time and effort on it (including the poster). >>>> >>>> That is: >>>> >>>> - I don't care about pure typographical errors. I'm pretty sure Stephen >>>> doesn't either. But maybe Heather does and wants to exert effort on >>>> them. >>>> Maybe she wants to verify them and post official ones of which she >>>> approves. >>>> Peachy. I don't care to know. >>>> >>>> - I like suggestions for changes to specs. They should be tracked, >>>> posted >>>> publicly, and discussed by those who are interested in that spec. >>>> But they >>>> shouldn't have to be marked as "Formally Approved By The Powers That >>>> Be", >>>> and I shouldn't need to spend my time looking at them unless I'm >>>> interested >>>> too. >>>> >>>> - If there's an overt error in a spec that causes implementation and/or >>>> interoperability problems, *and it's non-obvious*, those should be >>>> called >>>> out with red flags and fanfare in some well-known place that people >>>> know to >>>> go to for such important information, and someone in a position of >>>> responsibility should mark it as such. >>>> >>>> My sense is that part of the problem is that we've got once system >>>> to deal >>>> with the above, so we all end up spending time and effort on all >>>> three of >>>> the above. That's not good. The IESG (or chairs or whoever) *should* be >>>> stuck with spending time or effort on the third, but not on the >>>> first two. >>>> Maybe the RFC Editor should spend time or effort on the first, but the >>>> getting the IESG involved is highly silly. If we dealt with these >>>> things >>>> separately, I think overall happiness would be increased substantially. >>>> >>>> pr >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/> >>>> Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Errata-design mailing list >>>> Errata-design@rfc-editor.org >>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/errata-design >>>> >
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Barry Leiba
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Stephen Farrell
- [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Barry Leiba
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Barry Leiba
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Pete Resnick
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Barry Leiba
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Pete Resnick
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Pete Resnick
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Ted Lemon
- Re: [Errata-design] sanity notwithstanding... Ted Lemon