Re: [EToSat] What we are looking for from QUIC

"Border, John" <John.Border@hughes.com> Mon, 09 December 2019 17:39 UTC

Return-Path: <prvs=02461d3b1f=john.border@hughes.com>
X-Original-To: etosat@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: etosat@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B8A1200DF for <etosat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 09:39:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hughes.com header.b=mQM/YQyM; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hughes.com header.b=j255y7gq
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id raSZjoOItaat for <etosat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 09:39:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0b-00115402.pphosted.com (mx0b-00115402.pphosted.com [148.163.153.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE31A120843 for <etosat@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 09:39:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0118427.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00115402.pphosted.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id xB9HJ2qW023912; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 17:39:45 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hughes.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=3152018; bh=vVxja1G/xlrVsuJw2/LQH0d63zpoS5EIzhv3G5wv9E0=; b=mQM/YQyM8HdPrZjPTq+JgC0N2iWoHCgQX6RGXDoTCztLl0jIKBv1/ACmh6o4CYLj54GQ q8dKfcY0nzk6/eZF5/vgG6H+elnhd0my2hCBvg5kuzkzGuTde8pnTMEVCmuRJZQ/2m3X ulADuwjE4At9RRffnU8al/wnaE53LlwJtR8jtqIrmY6md0MprGrg11uY8OngXqe9TQ8r hd1aLnE4I+XOq+cRoJToeJJgYH8nSGY96d91w00eO1yCQoWV2DuakOB4RU2etapiwxaV lEI8CYq+JQGkvMmflq2wYsk3AnPaqhdWwrlV1CPOYYk+GyWt60kduCYrUJpB+jXnpiJJ Qg==
Received: from nam12-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam12lp2176.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.55.176]) by mx0b-00115402.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2wr3a9j1m0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 09 Dec 2019 17:39:45 +0000
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=P9+4agNHJ7zM/CZCfBTyZbHzuaySJyHk0AHpemP/5f/u/2tWpbHz3nS8SlmTOWRpt72AgMewTu1qRkzBQSBJ8bvqYGg+zlCl2NFXlXC/DnU3iTyWyoruCgiHQXmqqGSo0JG7h7YxaW085Anw8QclHGevJ3TdyN4AOcVTrm5+aTk2zyL2qFoTUfjz5+ZxvOgJhndUQxaexnEf23xeSW1UUJkAFSZy9AmARPXvvQiV31VaBhTGFe5J7kCtLTzHh/g5816Oix0FiNY8kajrSyXwqSojG5EPd0IqT5/DiWjnouAksL9b9B/SQzzRQ2PnGDtle/EvyZofKyVTVZLNK8wsGg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=vVxja1G/xlrVsuJw2/LQH0d63zpoS5EIzhv3G5wv9E0=; b=MnKnmICjaC9ZI9H6vMo+oJ8QW+/agaZcoOHFDfTQeuIAN4rdUIakMr1lOzMmRySIFb7FecKz1r5lR8hWb/nv3rOPy9ZyASYwAo2dj+wCX4GN3HQmXWjEQNPPpI8U5XCIbzzQIcV34+SqNs07nj+a3gT/GC9moMsQHfpyS14PzFNQaaHUseljG/ovF5MRZKwsUndxSRivkCRYaG1eWjVzLMzi1bw+YguYwZLCH85mwYwrWWGjSehrv8eaXMTJKbC0ihNKU2Da1zNI8VO5YzwPHRnM/RjfVLHKUAL/2l33cWjY228j2cm0Z87tOf86M2UnZLhL8MHzoXaMtFS4VJ7vmA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=hughes.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=hughes.com; dkim=pass header.d=hughes.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hughes.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=vVxja1G/xlrVsuJw2/LQH0d63zpoS5EIzhv3G5wv9E0=; b=j255y7gq6NA8T5HvarJyPnP+rWxWUs4lxKWHebDSaF1tPj4V/RWbKcxQFSer3eCg7ESCsTycGoWuzU2WMuh9uv4s2zQW7UnNevVn2SSOd2f7eDu74GMZ8FRfrF5SGvJC65umDVG4RuJV46/xGkRm5uvfDTqPZdt296FecS6xYvY=
Received: from BL0PR11MB3394.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.167.240.143) by BL0PR11MB3075.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (20.177.204.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.14; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 17:39:44 +0000
Received: from BL0PR11MB3394.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6dfe:7420:65b:1743]) by BL0PR11MB3394.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6dfe:7420:65b:1743%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2516.018; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 17:39:43 +0000
From: "Border, John" <John.Border@hughes.com>
To: "Morten V. Pedersen" <morten@steinwurf.com>
CC: "etosat@ietf.org" <etosat@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EToSat] What we are looking for from QUIC
Thread-Index: AdWqBvqSpD0dZHfeQqedFPfMiHoxPwEe5tAAAA0iX+A=
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 17:39:43 +0000
Message-ID: <BL0PR11MB3394462A489BDDC8EF2B200190580@BL0PR11MB3394.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BL0PR11MB3394354FD21C86492999FB8590420@BL0PR11MB3394.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <faff8b8a-157a-e8e0-2c8c-ea48c8582ca3@steinwurf.com>
In-Reply-To: <faff8b8a-157a-e8e0-2c8c-ea48c8582ca3@steinwurf.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [139.85.223.11]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8983870d-ad87-455c-2fe7-08d77ccec6aa
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3075:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BL0PR11MB3075C7D4CE2174599E23C52890580@BL0PR11MB3075.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691;
x-forefront-prvs: 02462830BE
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6029001)(396003)(39860400002)(346002)(366004)(376002)(136003)(189003)(199004)(13464003)(33656002)(478600001)(305945005)(52536014)(966005)(2906002)(6916009)(86362001)(5660300002)(316002)(53546011)(6506007)(186003)(26005)(71200400001)(81166006)(8676002)(229853002)(71190400001)(4326008)(7696005)(55016002)(76116006)(9686003)(66556008)(66446008)(8936002)(81156014)(64756008)(66946007)(66476007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BL0PR11MB3075; H:BL0PR11MB3394.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: hughes.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: hughes.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8983870d-ad87-455c-2fe7-08d77ccec6aa
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Dec 2019 17:39:43.3734 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0e1f3187-4610-4ce2-bad1-b92f4ba36ab3
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jsi+qC3BupiCOgCAOc0kcosWvjfwoCSjObeYKAxuKelHhINFVYeP7v/U8Vk8eGcZZvFUaUNEYswG0xk1mDOD9g==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB3075
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-09_04:2019-12-09,2019-12-09 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=673 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912090143
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/etosat/yKHgiUAO8WHAFA4jlE3g4ONZNH0>
Subject: Re: [EToSat] What we are looking for from QUIC
X-BeenThere: etosat@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "The EToSat list is a non-WG mailing list used to discuss performance implications of running encrypted transports such as QUIC over satellite." <etosat.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/etosat>, <mailto:etosat-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/etosat/>
List-Post: <mailto:etosat@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:etosat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/etosat>, <mailto:etosat-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 17:39:59 -0000

I guess technically I was making an assumption but...

FEC adds overhead.  The amount of overhead which is tolerable in a given case depends on a lot of factors including the error rate and the latency.  If the link is clean, the overhead is wasted bandwidth which could be used for more goodput.


John


-----Original Message-----
From: EToSat <etosat-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Morten V. Pedersen
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2019 6:20 AM
To: etosat@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [EToSat] What we are looking for from QUIC

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi John,
Could you elaborate on the point below:

--------------------------

On 12/3/19 7:43 PM, Border, John wrote:
> We are looking at FEC to help with the packet loss problem and large 
> windows to address the throughput problem.  Since enabling FEC and 
> very large windows (especially initial windows) will not be good 
> defaults for general use, we need some sort of learning capability to 
> know when they should be used.

--------------------------

Is it because of computational complexity or similar?

All the best,
Morten

_______________________________________________
EToSat mailing list
EToSat@ietf.org
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/etosat__;!!Emaut56SYw!gzEsWLNOSGfsmPGleEr0e68WSH3WZviRzCuB3AGdrtc0tB5sRn_0Ir13ykfxS-azlA$