Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bosch-sieve-eai-01.txt
Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Wed, 26 May 2021 15:53 UTC
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Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 06:27:02 -0700
From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 25 May 2021 21:28:14 +0200" <cfa2fc35-a68d-16fc-c05f-8fbae2cf07e4@open-xchange.com>
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To: Stephan Bosch <stephan.bosch=40open-xchange.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bosch-sieve-eai-01.txt
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I'm afraid this document has a lot of probems, some of which may not be easy to resolve. The biggest problem by far is that the idea of invoking an extension in order to be able to process an EAI message is intrinsicly nonsensical: A message presented to the Sieve interpreter is either an EAI message or it's not, and there's nothing the Sieve interpreter or Sieve author can do to change that. (It may not even know if a given message was intended to be in EAI format - there's no reliable marker for this.) And now things start to get sticky: There's no telling what will happen if you feed an EAI message into a Sieve implementation that's not itself EAI aware. Will it simply process the UTF-8 it finds by leaving it alone (likely)? Or will it treat the UTF-8 it finds in headers as illegal - whatever that means? Will it know that message/global contains a message, and if so, will it be able to look inside of an encoded message/global (probably not)? The ineluctable conclusion here is that an email system that supports both EAI and Sieve in a compliant way MUST support EAI in Sieve. This is a compliance matter, plain and simple, and cannot be handled as an extension. So the first task of this document needs to be to define what this form of compliance means. It definitely includes saying that the header and address tests must allow for unencoded UTF-8, proper handling of message/global, and probably a bunch of other stuff. But now things get even stickier: A-labels. EAI extends the message format to allow, among other things, U-Labels in domains, but AFAIK doesn't explicitly say that A-Labels cannot be used. (Except in the case of domains in trace fields, and as a recent discussion has shown, it appears this requirement is being widely ignored.) Domains appear in a lot more header fields than addresses, and it would be asking a lot of a Sieve implementation to know how to parse them all and convert A-labels to U-labels. FWIW, I think the right answer is to only perform the conversion in the address test, but I could be persuaded otherwise. Redirect, vacation, notify, and any other action that sends a message are where an smtputf8, as opposed to an eai, Sieve extension makes sense. And note that all of these actions can send an EAI even if the original message wasn't EAI. A careful review of every Sieve extension with an eye to how it interacts with EAI needs to be done, but that should be deferred until we're settled on the overall approach. Finally, I note that there's some odd language in the current document about not interpreting encoded-words in EAI messages. This makes no sense to me as messsages are often Frankensteinian in origin and can easily end up with a mix of UTF-8 and encoded-words. Ned > Hi, > This is just a refresh of the document submission. Apart from my address > information, nothing changed. > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > A new version of I-D, draft-bosch-sieve-eai-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Stephan Bosch and posted to the > IETF repository. > Name: draft-bosch-sieve-eai > Revision: 01 > Title: Sieve: Internationalized Email > Document date: 2021-05-25 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 8 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-bosch-sieve-eai-01.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bosch-sieve-eai/ > Html: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-bosch-sieve-eai-01.html > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bosch-sieve-eai > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-bosch-sieve-eai-01 > Abstract: > This document defines an extension to the Sieve language called "eai" > which adds full support for internationalized email. > The IETF Secretariat > _______________________________________________ > Extra mailing list > Extra@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra
- [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bosch-… Stephan Bosch
- Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bo… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bo… Ned Freed
- Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bo… John Levine
- Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bo… Ned Freed
- Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bo… Stephan Bosch
- Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bo… Stephan Bosch
- Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bo… Ned Freed
- Re: [Extra] New Version Notification for draft-bo… Bron Gondwana