Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update
Stuart Brandt <stujenerin@aol.com> Sun, 11 November 2018 23:38 UTC
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From: Stuart Brandt <stujenerin@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 18:38:15 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update
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If this is the case, then it might be best to include some level of recommendation in the draft that clients *not* make an effort to stay up to date with any changes that the server might make. I sure would hate to see <tag> FETCH 1:* (FLAGS) become <tag> FETCH 1:* (FLAGS PREVIEW), adding up to 255bytes per item to the FETCH response just because PREVIEW *might* change. - Stu On 11/10/2018 12:15 AM, Bron Gondwana wrote: > That's my attitude to previews too, they don't "change" but they might > not be byte identical if fetched again later due to changing server > algorithms. The old value is never "wrong" though, short of buggy servers. > > Bron. > > On Sat, 10 Nov 2018, at 13:14, Timo Sirainen wrote: >> I think from IMAP protocol purity point of view it would be nice if we >> didn't have fields that could suddenly change without any indication. >> But from a practical point of view: Who cares, really? The previews >> are mainly intended for clients that don't have a local cache. Even if >> we implemented modseq changes for previews, would any client (that has >> more than a couple of users) ever really use them? I find it doubtful. >> More likely these additional requirements would make it more difficult >> for servers to implement this feature, so the clients wouldn't have it >> at all. >> >>> On 9 Nov 2018, at 21.14, Brandon Long >>> <blong=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org >>> <mailto:blong=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: >>> >>> Do we think this is likely to be used for full-sync clients? >>> Theoretically, those could just generate their own snippets locally >>> from the rest of the data. >>> >>> For online clients, the preview would just be part of what they >>> download to display the message list. >>> >>> Without QRESYNC, we still have some ugly polling, though obviously >>> PREVEIWS are larger than UIDs. >>> >>> OTOH, I feel we already have part of this type of problem today, >>> where improvements to our parsers or encoding detection might change >>> our response to any >>> given message based request, but obviously we won't rev the >>> UIDVALIDITY folders on every bi-weekly release when its only ever >>> going to affect a small number of messages. >>> >>> Brandon >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 4:52 PM Stuart Brandt >>> <stujenerin=40aol.com@dmarc.ietf..org >>> <mailto:40aol.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: >>> >>> I know I brought this up years ago, but I'm not sure I ever saw >>> solid >>> resolution. If, as proposed, the Preview is mutable, then are we not >>> addressing how to efficiently identify and sync changes that >>> might have >>> been made to it? If I were a client dev, I'd want to have the most >>> recent Preview for a message because a new version likely means: >>> a) server fixed a defective preview >>> b) server improved preview's value-to-user >>> >>> Mutable data without an efficient way to sync leads to ugly polling. >>> >>> - Stu >>> >>> On 11/8/2018 7:03 AM, Bron Gondwana wrote: >>> > Hi Michael, >>> > >>> > Thanks again for submitting this, and apologies that I haven't >>> done a >>> > thorough review yet - it's on my todo list and I expect to do >>> so soon. >>> > >>> > The ONLY remaining question was length. 200 is good, but JMAP >>> says 255 >>> > and consistency will make it better. Unless you have a strong >>> reason to >>> > lock it down to 200, would you consider changing it to "no more >>> than 255 >>> > octets" with an understanding that there's no requirement that >>> servers >>> > have to store that much, just that clients must be willing to >>> accept >>> > that much. That will keep everything consistent. >>> > >>> > Other than this, we believe we're ready to take this document >>> to working >>> > group last call, which I intend to do once I've heard back from >>> you - >>> > it's easy to fix this up during last call. >>> > >>> > Thanks for your work and for getting us the update in time for >>> this meeting. >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > >>> > Bron. >>> > >>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018, at 03:30, Michael Slusarz wrote: >>> >> I've submitted an update to the (formerly snippet, now) >>> preview draft >>> >> incorporating feedback received from this list and other >>> implementers. >>> >> >>> >> Main change is the name - this is now "PREVIEW" instead of >>> "SNIPPET". >>> >> Also, increased recommended preview size to 200 characters >>> >> (previously: 100). >>> >> >>> >> Will not be able to remotely join IETF 103 meeting as I am >>> traveling, >>> >> but wanted to make sure this draft was updated before then. >>> >> >>> >> michael >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Extra mailing list >>> >> Extra@ietf.org <mailto:Extra@ietf.org> >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra >>> >> >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd >>> > brong@fastmailteam.com <mailto:brong@fastmailteam.com> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Extra mailing list >>> > Extra@ietf.org <mailto:Extra@ietf.org> >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Extra mailing list >>> Extra@ietf.org <mailto:Extra@ietf.org> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Extra mailing list >>> Extra@ietf.org <mailto:Extra@ietf.org> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Extra mailing list >> Extra@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra >> > > -- > Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd > brong@fastmailteam.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Extra mailing list > Extra@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra >
- [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Michael Slusarz
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Timo Sirainen
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Stuart Brandt
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Brandon Long
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Timo Sirainen
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Stuart Brandt
- Re: [Extra] SNIPPET (now PREVIEW) draft update Neil Jenkins