Re: [Extra] imap4rev2: RFC6851 MOVE

"Bron Gondwana" <brong@fastmailteam.com> Fri, 23 November 2018 05:09 UTC

Return-Path: <brong@fastmailteam.com>
X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F9C126CC7 for <extra@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Nov 2018 21:09:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.983
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY=0.717, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=oG7WRgLf; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=el3cQZwb
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T5zKwbZ9viOU for <extra@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Nov 2018 21:09:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0363127B92 for <extra@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Nov 2018 21:09:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C8021DC7 for <extra@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Nov 2018 00:09:47 -0500 (EST)
Received: from imap7 ([10.202.2.57]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 23 Nov 2018 00:09:47 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from :to:subject:content-type; s=fm1; bh=L18Snl53A87OdyzR/w9gaNuOHXLF W67EQvdjGG1EZPQ=; b=oG7WRgLfyY1k2QWCGiRaagcce8Rfo3S5rKcJ7+5o/01d P+W3VyYTh11OeCOudZHYF8dI876oMNHo3pLMzJbKdihp+8T2DBzVXJREoAWFQShf U1i6w6lqNX8QCeYR2Ou682eAXTwpS+u+1dwXF9KOHlI6TPgG+76s4l52CD5jUBIq xhYsQdtvAtxVhaY9IOJ0nF/LSQx0Icln18+gGv5k/yTJDT7PSELOejWZr0ikKLbQ tPzp72jPTXhjxp5OFyGLfAkdZceOs1D81q6fOUjYUuBsElT+yiCcryG+Ry+vZCjd Yaa+1sFxSB8M0H3OwVaCDOzeja3tkh63Lo4BaJlOHg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=L18Snl53A87OdyzR/ w9gaNuOHXLFW67EQvdjGG1EZPQ=; b=el3cQZwbMf3+Opl5hzcroNiZxhZbE1+bO IfuVPUjax2ikVGX/k1o1xa9YkhZIynSIvTCfBZaQtsQC+JrtNRATMNXGynxmLpsi Bzpc8KhWA8UaX5u5gu7Q2E17lrMHOXmIgwAKzqU4L/P9Wvwi6X7DS1dXHHyoeLKm 5YvT1nkFxtS8jEUCjy53JFvwrk9kcmBFYAmufhMfM+kz3Tr/El1IKdfBVoD4o09H uL+EQYn9t8Axs4BwvFAYg3VrK1dXMixCa5Ml5ejTLxGQsKj7FV328hL2ktJNhag/ V18luE804F/Y0/+2mrJ7LObT17i9rir36ZOrAQcB57SrdusPihjNw==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:m4v3WxdUkkZDadsQPMi8wLV6ClQeVMj7ftExXQsuIxjAX-kZHTorgA>
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:m4v3W_fQdfinvytFNempbAY9ATHtWn8kucq_dxNhHRl6tso79Ey5sw> <xmx:m4v3WzvQhbkRY8kSzwdT-4lHC3w4qozgh_NSMUIXos5lh0qjf5h_1Q> <xmx:m4v3Ww6haMDHryD3nerQhz7HB91Mrfp7TVol2d5V5A0hsgaxhlRQXg> <xmx:m4v3Wyw7aunIOB6-0KJ0-4b5TITItwqTnix2KI5CD5gFYQXlAm41yQ> <xmx:m4v3WzplfXqlDvMlcI_a5ApXU6n1ok8E-fXPZuBjfp9E0-009dRU2Q> <xmx:m4v3WwU0AyOnSNjL8R2DXnedemJkliBZ_jbXzJZpAtWiUR78Y-oulw>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7EC3F204DC; Fri, 23 Nov 2018 00:09:47 -0500 (EST)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
Message-Id: <aa428f34-feea-4e6a-b3df-892bf219b4b3@sloti7d1t02>
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.5-610-gd7ceb27-fmstable-20181026v1
X-Me-Personality: 56629417
In-Reply-To: <0cd69746-bcbd-4cea-8500-8d485eef33ea@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
References: <bf58fc05-b4f6-4078-a888-ddda75cce724@sloti7d1t02> <5BE4DB10.6090003@aol.com> <+zYCDTO4ZdsjSWin88IbqbIxTnobzOcvIPeIiYbAjBA=.sha-256@antelope.email> <776977791.12860.1542298378436@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <d6481874-4613-4881-bc86-1c409bc43c59@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <CAPj8JorqagqO885sWme=FLKE6W5nm3ObOP6spwk48cRUrAUS0A@mail.gmail.com> <0cd69746-bcbd-4cea-8500-8d485eef33ea@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 00:09:47 -0500
From: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>
To: extra@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="8ade84b69df149698ba257a9b5e64e2c"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/extra/u0KBWdY6R2OP42qPaWqZudkdPMM>
Subject: Re: [Extra] imap4rev2: RFC6851 MOVE
X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend <extra.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/extra>, <mailto:extra-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/extra/>
List-Post: <mailto:extra@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:extra-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra>, <mailto:extra-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 05:09:51 -0000

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018, at 09:13, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: 
> On Thursday 15 November 2018 22:43:47 CET, Rob Siemborski wrote: 
> > IIRC, Mark's resistance came from the "its a shortcut" idea  
> > that Michael mentioned. 
>  
> One of the people who proposed a MOVE argued that the command wasn't a  
> shortcut in case of... at least three formats that were in use at the time.  
> MH, djb's format and one more. I don't remember the details. But I do  
> remember that Mark ignored that, and that I assumed that the shortcut  
> argument was just a superficial rhetorical device, not a deeply held  
> conviction. 
>  
> I found his position very puzzling. 
 
My protocol philosophy is that the protocol should describe, as accurately as possible, the user's intention in a way that the server can then decide the best way to implement that intention - which is why I argued for move, because that's what the user is doing! 
 So yeah, I strongly support adding MOVE to the base protocol. Everyone seems to like it.
 
Bron. 
 
-- 
 Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd 
 brong@fastmailteam.com