[fdt] Fwd: [Webtransport] Standards for protocol headers?

[Scott Morgan <[e-mail]>]

Hi Marc,

   Thanks, I'm not trying to be intentionally confusing :)  In an attempt
to clarify, I'm trying to create a new structured PDU format that could be
used to define PDU description languages (not a primary concern) as well as
larger data structures like files or bytes in datagrams.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_data_unit

Lets continue @ [e-mail] !

Cheers,
Scott

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Webtransport] Standards for protocol headers?
To: Scott Morgan <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>


Hi Scott,

I still find your terminology confusing.  I am not sure if you are
proposing to design a new PDU description language (ala ASN.1, ABNF, RBNF,
CDDL, XML RELAX, etc..) or a new structured PDU format (ala DER, BER, XML,
JSON, CBOR, etc...).  If it is the former, I would suggest to resend your
email to [e-mail], where we discuss this kind of things.

Thanks.

On 6/12/20 7:25 AM, Scott Morgan wrote:
> Hi Marc,
>
>    Thanks for responding!  I meant 'protocol header' in the broadest
> sense.  I have implemented some protocols in the past (Web Socket v13,
SMTP
> etc) and work a lot with JSON and XML as I mentioned previously.  Here are
> some general frustrations (i.e. problem statement) that I'm looking to
> overcome;
>
> 1) JSON and XML generally lack support for binary data (there are some
> workarounds but nothing is super great).
> 2) JSON and XML both now have the concept of a Schema
>          Note I think the concept of a Schema is a good thing but also
feel
> that Schemas often don't cover all
>      Metadata that needs to be covered.  Perhaps the concept of a Schema
> needs to be enhanced by UsageMetadata information.
>          Also note I am frustrated with JSON's inability to provide human
> readable schemas (multi line text in the .json file (not /n)).
>          I also have frustrations with XML schemas and XML (like everyone
> else who now favors JSON over XML)
> 3) Protocol's often have Headers and other information which act in a
> similar fashion to Schemas (i.e. they describe / specify data structures)
>
>   I'm wondering if it's time for a new markup language that can support
> binary data and assist in specifying protocol byte segments in addition to
> more general purpose transport and storage data (like JSON & XML do).
>   I'm thinking about calling it 'Classification Markup Notation'.
>
>   I messaged this to the group just to throw the idea out there, to get
> feedback and also to find collaborators.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 7:53 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin <
[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 6/10/20 5:14 PM, Scott Morgan wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>    I have been working with JSON, XML and some protocol headers recently
>>> and I am wondering...
>>> Why are there no real standard text formats for protocol headers, or am
I
>>> missing something?
>>>
>>> It seems to me that a slightly more streamlined/optimal binary/markup
>>> standard could help protocols attain POCs and adoption much quicker and
>>> help reduce some of the work defining protocols.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on this topic?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "protocol header"?  My
>> understanding of that term is the fixed part at the beginning of a PDU,
PDU
>> that also contains a variable length part after it (as in UDP Header, TCP
>> Header, RTP Header, HTTP, SIP, SMTP etc...), but that definition does not
>> seem to apply to JSON or XML (as a whole).
>>

-- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: [e-mail]
Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug



-- 
Regards,
Scott Morgan
President & CEO
Adligo Inc
http://www.adligo.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-morgan-21739415
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