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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 19:04:57 -0400
Message-ID: <CAG4d1rfA-MGY=AwAdXgqdjq+XOLs7vuMaOxkW8yPjWOMZrrhFg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
To: Jamal Hadi Salim <hadi@mojatatu.com>
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Cc: "forces@ietf.org" <forces@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-forces-interfelfb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [forces] AD review of draft-ietf-forces-interfelfb-01
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--047d7b41c5b4c53afd051c703209
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Jamal,

Thanks - I've asked Joel to help and do a routing directorate review.
The timeline is up to you, but I'm not as backlogged anymore.

Regards,
Alia

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Jamal Hadi Salim <hadi@mojatatu.com> wrote:

> Alia,
>
> You raise legit issues. We will work on putting out a new version
> in the next day or two which will hopefully address all the issues you
> brought up by being more focussed. Thanks for your patience.
>
> cheers,
> jamal
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jamal,
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jamal Hadi Salim <hadi@mojatatu.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Alia,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Damascane and Jamal,
>>>>
>>>> First, thank you for your work on this draft.
>>>>
>>>> As is customary, I have done my AD review of this draft before
>>>> requesting IETF Last Call.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Thanks for making the time. Your effort is very much appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> As part of this, I see that Evangelos, acting as Document Shepherd,
>>>> found a number of issues that are written up in his report - and that still
>>>> haven't been addressed two months later.  Picking an IANA value that isn't
>>>> available is one of them.  I know these are editorial, but still needed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry.
>>> Based on the last discussions we had it didnt seem that it was  worth
>>> changing
>>> until we got AD input (for some reason i thought it was you we discussed
>>> this with - but likely it was Adrian; i just got back so still
>>> jetlagged).
>>> We will make an update taking into consideration the comments from
>>>  Evangelos and yourself.
>>>
>>
>> As you may understand, for an AD-sponsored draft, I do expect that the
>> authors are extremely pro-active.
>> Claiming that the draft is ready to progress when it is very far from
>> that is just a way of wasting all our time - particularly
>> when I pick up the same issues and see whether or not they've been
>> addressed.
>>
>> As this draft is written, it is taking a single implementation and
>> doesn't think through implications or the different aspects.
>>
>> At this time, I really don't think this draft is ready to advance.
>>>> There are some things that are editorial or clarifications, as I
>>>> described below.
>>>>
>>>> Please take some serious time and focus to improve this document if you
>>>> want it to progress.
>>>>
>>>> There are two primary major issues.
>>>>
>>>> First, you haven't in any way justified why the inter-FE communication
>>>> needs to be encapsulated in an Ethernet frame.  Since you are asking for
>>>> the IETF to get an EtherType allocated, that's kind of a bare minimum.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We have this working over ethernet today and our scope is on ethernet
>>> L2 networks in a private setting (because that was the charter work
>>> item).
>>> We need the ethertype  for dis-ambiguation of the frames.
>>> We do recognize it is possible to run data across different underlying
>>> protocols - but it seems even talking about that in the doc was
>>> unnecessary
>>> editorializing.
>>>
>>
>> A personal choice to implement it using Ethernet is not a technical
>> justification as to why this needs to be a standard.
>> You are asking for a limited resource - and, as Pat's email indicated,
>> the IEEE are asking that new EtherTypes have formats that
>> include a subtype so that reuse is possible.
>>
>> Are there others interested in deploying this over Ethernet?   Why is it
>> necessary to use Ethernet and not IP?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Second, the draft bounces around a lot around whether this is an
>>>> encapsulation that is just inside Ethernet or a general encapsulation that
>>>> can be inside IP and other things.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, we will review and remove any uncertainty
>>> and just focus on ethernet.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Moreover, it doesn't actually describe the reasoning or handling of the
>>>> src/dest information and the packets.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> We will try to clarify.
>>>
>>>
>>>> You really need to better describe precisely the assumptions,
>>>> behaviors, and error handling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Section 6 tries to cover the above. We will go over it again and fix
>>> any gaps we can find.
>>>
>>>
>>> Issues:
>>>>
>>>> 1) In Sec 5.1.1:  "The frame may be dropped if there is congestion on
>>>> the receiving FE side.  One approach to mitigate this issue is to make sure
>>>> that inter-FE LFB frames receive the highest priority treatment
>>>> when scheduled on the wire."  This suggestion just destroyed the
>>>> possibility of respecting the requested CoS of the encapsulated packet and
>>>> probably any actual high priority or EF traffic.   This recommendation must
>>>> be fixed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Would wording around this form help:
>>> "The frame may be dropped if there is congestion on the receiving FE
>>> side.
>>> To mitigate this issue is the sending FE side should treat inter-FE LFB
>>> frames
>>> with high priority. When 802.1p is present, then it is recommended a
>>> value
>>> of XXX should be used. In the absence of 802.1p, implementation specific
>>> treatments at the source FE may be used".
>>> To your earlier point i think we need to say something like this around
>>> section
>>> 6 as well.
>>>
>>> 2) In Sec 6.1.1: One step is " create the outer ethernet header which is
>>>> a duplicate of the
>>>>       incoming frame's ethernet header.  The outer ethernet header may
>>>>       have an optional 802.1q header (if one was included in the
>>>>       original frame)."  First, what if the incoming packet wasn't in
>>>> an ethernet frame?  POS does still exist.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our intent (and deployment)  is on ethernet. Clearly we need to emphasize
>>> that view.
>>> Do you see POS as a necessary ingredient?
>>>
>>
>> You are describing what is presented as an inter-FE communication and
>> then your text ASSUMES that the
>> traffic is always Ethernet frames where the original Ethernet frame is
>> still available at that point in the pipeline.
>> This is just sloppy and not generic for no reason that I can currently
>> understand.
>>
>> Second, why would the 802.1q vlan tag be relevant/valid on the outgoing
>>>> port in between FEs?   This doesn't really make sense to me.  I do see the
>>>> next bullet talks about changing the vlan tag value but nothing happens if
>>>> the NEID is 0 or absent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The context of this was taken directly from code;-> So something was
>>> lost in translation. We will fix it.
>>>
>>> As to the relevance of the vlan tags - the idea of NEID is one of tenancy
>>> differentiation.
>>>
>>
>> But how is that connected to the inter-FE communication?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 3) How can the DSTFE be optional???  Why does sending the Ethernet
>>>> Frame to the original destination MAC address work?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You put some doubt in my mind when I read this;-> So I went and looked
>>> at testcases. And in the majority of the policies, we do specify the
>>> DSTFE.
>>> But there are some cases where _we dont_ and reuse the originally
>>> target DSTFE MAC address on the outer header.
>>> Does that explain? If not, why do you think it wont work?
>>>
>>
>> Why would a random destination MAC address have anything to do with the
>> next FE in the FE graph?
>>
>> Presumably, the outer encapsulation is to go from one FE to another FE in
>> the graph.  If so, then what
>> information the packet being processed has is irrelevant.  If not, then
>> you've totally failed to explain your
>> assumptions and purpose.
>>
>>
>>
>>> 4) In Sec 6.2, what happens if none of the optional elements of an
>>>> IFEInfo are specified?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for catching this.
>>> There would be no such table entry allowed (and so no processed packets
>>> will encounter this scenario). We will update the doc to indicate that
>>> when the
>>> CE inserts policies in the policy table - the FE MUST validate that the
>>> non
>>> optional fields are all present (the implementation already does that).
>>>
>>
>> But you made them all optional!
>>
>>
>>> How can this work if there's no required way to describe the destination
>>>> FE?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Am I misunderstanding or are you are implying we need some default
>>> DSTFE where a lookup failure happens?
>>> Last para in 6.1.1 describes what happens on lookup failure.
>>>
>>> 5) From p. 22, it looks like the IFETable is defined assuming only
>>>> transport over Ethernet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes - that is the intent
>>>
>>
>> Why do you have text describing a more generic solution and then actually
>> define an extremely limited one?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alia
>>
>>
>>> 6) Sec 10:  I think you'll find that there are security implications of
>>>> taking packets and sending them in an Ethernet packet.  Now, I realize that
>>>> the different FEs are probably inside the same device on a private network
>>>> - but you need to clarify why that's the case.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes, the scope is within the same network. We will add clarification.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Minor Quibble:
>>>>
>>>> a) There are places where this draft talks about other documents being
>>>> written.  For instance, on the top of p.13 "For any mapping towards
>>>> these definitions a different   document to describe the mapping, one
>>>> per transport, is expected to be defined."  It's fine to have a process in
>>>> mind - but this is completely unclear, given that the WG is closed.  Are
>>>> these documents with a well-known place on-line?  Are these ISE drafts?  Do
>>>> you think these would be AD-sponsored or in rtgwg?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> We can get rid of such text altogether to avoid any confusion we are
>>> talking about ethernet only.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> b) On the bottom of p. 13, it says "In this version of the
>>>> specification, we only focus on data and metadata.  Therefore we are not
>>>> going to describe how to carry the ExceptionID information (future versions
>>>> may). "   PLEASE go through the document and get rid of these bits of
>>>> tentative and future language.  The document is doing and defining what it
>>>> is.  OWN that and fix the language everywhere.  (e.g. bottom of p.14 "would
>>>> save us")
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Will do.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nits:
>>>>
>>>> 1) On p. 6, "This information may include any source and
>>>> destination information (MAC address to use, if ethernet;)"  Sadly, I think
>>>> the ;) needs to go - what about "e.g. MAC address to use, if Ethernet)".
>>>>
>>>>
>>> will do.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) In Sec. 3.1.1, the last paragraph is "The purpose of the inter-FE
>>>> LFB is to define standard mechanisms for interconnecting FEs and for that
>>>> reason we are not going to touch
>>>>    anymore on proprietary chip-chip interconnects other than state the
>>>>    fact they exist and that it is feasible to have translation to and
>>>>    from proprietary approaches."  is a bit informal.  Could you please
>>>> clean it up a bit?
>>>>
>>> For instance:  "This document defines the inter-FE LFB, a standard
>>>> mechanism for interconnecting FEs.  Existing proprietary approaches, such
>>>> as chip-chip interconnects, may be able to translate to and from the
>>>> standard inter-FE LFB."
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Will do.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 3) Sec 4 starts with "We address the inter-FE connectivity requirements
>>>> by proposing the inter-FE LFB class."  Remember this will be an RFC -
>>>> please replace "proposing" with "defining".  Similarly, the title of
>>>> "Figure 6: Packet format suggestion" - is this what the document is
>>>> standardizing or not??
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Will do.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the thorough review.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> jamal
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Alia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

--047d7b41c5b4c53afd051c703209
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Jamal,<div><br></div><div>Thanks - I&#39;ve asked Joel to =
help and do a routing directorate review.</div><div>The timeline is up to y=
ou, but I&#39;m not as backlogged anymore.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards=
,</div><div>Alia</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Jamal Hadi Salim <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hadi@mojatatu.com" target=3D"_blank">hadi@mojatatu=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Alia,<div><br><div>You raise legit issues. We will work on putting out a=
 new version</div><div>in the next day or two which will hopefully address =
all the issues you=C2=A0</div><div>brought up by being more focussed. Thank=
s for your patience.</div><div><br></div><div>cheers,</div><div>jamal</div>=
</div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Alia At=
las <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jamal,<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jamal Hadi Salim <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hadi@mojatatu.com" target=3D"_blank">hadi@mojat=
atu.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Hi Alia,<div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><span>On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Alia Atlas <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Hi=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;PT Mono&#39;,=
Monaco,monospace;font-size:14px;line-height:1.214;background-color:rgb(255,=
253,245)">Damascane and Jamal,</span><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);f=
ont-family:&#39;PT Mono&#39;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:14px;line-height:1.=
214;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;PT Mono&#39;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:=
14px;line-height:1.214;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">First, thank you =
for your work on this draft.</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,=
0);font-family:&#39;PT Mono&#39;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:14px;line-heigh=
t:1.214;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></div><div><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:=
14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">As is=
 customary, I have done my AD review of this draft before requesting IETF L=
ast Call. =C2=A0</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT=
 Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.9960=
00289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></font></div></div=
></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Thanks for making the time. Your e=
ffort is very much appreciated.</div><span><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font color=3D"#000000=
" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-he=
ight:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"></span></font></d=
iv><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(2=
55,253,245)">As part of this, I see that Evangelos, acting as Document Shep=
herd, found a number of issues that are written up in his report - and that=
 still haven&#39;t been addressed two months later.=C2=A0 Picking an IANA v=
alue that isn&#39;t available is one of them.=C2=A0 I know these are editor=
ial, but still needed.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=
=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:1=
6.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></font></div=
></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Sorry.</div><=
div>Based on the last discussions we had it didnt seem that it was =C2=A0wo=
rth changing</div><div>until we got AD input (for some reason i thought it =
was you we discussed</div><div>this with - but likely it was Adrian; i just=
 got back so still jetlagged).=C2=A0</div><div>We will make an update takin=
g into consideration the comments from</div><div>=C2=A0Evangelos and yourse=
lf.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>As you may unde=
rstand, for an AD-sponsored draft, I do expect that the authors are extreme=
ly pro-active.</div><div>Claiming that the draft is ready to progress when =
it is very far from that is just a way of wasting all our time - particular=
ly</div><div>when I pick up the same issues and see whether or not they&#39=
;ve been addressed.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>As this draft is written, it=
 is taking a single implementation and doesn&#39;t think through implicatio=
ns or the different aspects.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><span><div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><fon=
t color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font=
-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"=
></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, =
monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,253,245)">At this time, I really don&#39;t think this =
draft is ready to advance.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-heig=
ht:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">There are some thin=
gs that are editorial or clarifications, as I described below.</span></font=
></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:r=
gb(255,253,245)"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=
=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:1=
6.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">Please take some seriou=
s time and focus to improve this document if you want it to progress.</span=
></font></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.99600028991=
7px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;PT Mono&#39;,Monaco,monospace;backgro=
und-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:=
14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;PT Mon=
o&#39;,Monaco,monospace;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">There are two pr=
imary major issues.</span><br></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT=
 Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.9960=
00289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></font></div><div>=
<font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"=
font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)">First, you haven&#39;t in any way justified why the inter-FE communica=
tion needs to be encapsulated in an Ethernet frame.=C2=A0 Since you are ask=
ing for the IETF to get an EtherType allocated, that&#39;s kind of a bare m=
inimum.</span></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>We=
 have this working over ethernet today and our scope is on ethernet</div><d=
iv>L2 networks in a private setting (because that was the charter work item=
).=C2=A0</div><div>We need the ethertype =C2=A0for dis-ambiguation of the f=
rames.</div><div>We do recognize it is possible to run data across differen=
t underlying</div><div>protocols - but it seems even talking about that in =
the doc was unnecessary</div><div>editorializing.</div></div></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>A personal choice to implement it using Ethe=
rnet is not a technical justification as to why this needs to be a standard=
.</div><div>You are asking for a limited resource - and, as Pat&#39;s email=
 indicated, the IEEE are asking that new EtherTypes have formats that</div>=
<div>include a subtype so that reuse is possible.</div><div><br></div><div>=
Are there others interested in deploying this over Ethernet? =C2=A0 Why is =
it necessary to use Ethernet and not IP?</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span><div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, m=
onospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,253,245)">Second, the draft bounces around a lot around=
 whether this is an encapsulation that is just inside Ethernet or a general=
 encapsulation that can be inside IP and other things.</span></font></div><=
/div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Ok, we will review and remove =
any uncertainty</div><div>and just focus on ethernet.</div><span><div>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
4px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">Moreov=
er, it doesn&#39;t actually describe the reasoning or handling of the src/d=
est information and the packets.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#00=
0000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;lin=
e-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></=
font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>We =
will try to clarify.</div><span><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco,=
 monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#00=
0000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;lin=
e-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">You really ne=
ed to better describe precisely the assumptions, behaviors, and error handl=
ing.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monac=
o, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;b=
ackground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></font></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><br></div></span><div>Section 6 tries to cover the above. We will go=
 over it again and fix</div><div>any gaps we can find.</div><span><div><br>=
</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><=
font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,24=
5)">Issues:</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono=
, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289=
917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></font></div><div><font=
 color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-=
size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">=
1) In Sec 5.1.1: =C2=A0</span></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mon=
o, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.99600028=
9917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">&quot;</span></font>The frame may=
 be dropped if there is congestion on the receiving=C2=A0FE side.=C2=A0 One=
 approach to mitigate this issue is to make sure that=C2=A0inter-FE LFB fra=
mes receive the highest priority treatment when=C2=A0scheduled on the wire.=
&quot; =C2=A0This suggestion just destroyed the possibility of respecting t=
he requested CoS of the encapsulated packet and probably any actual high pr=
iority or EF traffic. =C2=A0 This recommendation must be fixed.</div><div><=
br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Would=
 wording around this form help:</div><span><div>&quot;The frame may be drop=
ped if there is congestion on the receiving FE side.=C2=A0</div></span><div=
>To mitigate this issue is the sending FE side should treat inter-FE LFB fr=
ames</div><div>with high priority. When 802.1p is present, then it is recom=
mended a value</div><div>of XXX should be used. In the absence of 802.1p, i=
mplementation specific</div><div>treatments at the source FE may be used&qu=
ot;.</div><div>To your earlier point i think we need to say something like =
this around section</div><div>6 as well.</div><span><div><br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>2) In Sec 6.1.1: On=
e step is &quot;=C2=A0create the outer ethernet header which is a duplicate=
 of the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 incoming frame&#39;s ethernet header.=C2=A0=
 The outer ethernet header may<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have an optional 802=
.1q header (if one was included in the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 original fra=
me).&quot; =C2=A0First, what if the incoming packet wasn&#39;t in an ethern=
et frame?=C2=A0 POS does still exist.=C2=A0</div></div></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div><br></div></span><div>Our intent (and deployment) =C2=A0is on =
ethernet. Clearly we need to emphasize</div><div>that view.</div><div>Do yo=
u see POS as a necessary ingredient?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>You are describing what is presented as an inter-FE commu=
nication and then your text ASSUMES that the</div><div>traffic is always Et=
hernet frames where the original Ethernet frame is still available at that =
point in the pipeline.</div><div>This is just sloppy and not generic for no=
 reason that I can currently understand.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv> Second, why would the 802.1q vlan tag be relevant/valid on the outgoing=
 port in between FEs? =C2=A0 This doesn&#39;t really make sense to me.=C2=
=A0 I do see the next bullet talks about changing the vlan tag value but no=
thing happens if the NEID is 0 or absent.</div><div><br></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div></span><div>The context of this was taken directly fro=
m code;-&gt; So something was</div><div>lost in translation. We will fix it=
.</div><div><br></div><div>As to the relevance of the vlan tags - the idea =
of NEID is one of tenancy</div><div>differentiation.</div><span><div></div>=
</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>But how is that c=
onnected to the inter-FE communication? =C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><span><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>3) How can the DSTFE be optional???=C2=A0 =
Why does sending the Ethernet Frame to the original destination MAC address=
 work?</div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>You put some =
doubt in my mind when I read this;-&gt; So I went and looked</div><div>at t=
estcases. And in the majority of the policies, we do specify the DSTFE.</di=
v><div>But there are some cases where _we dont_ and reuse the originally</d=
iv><div>target DSTFE MAC address on the outer header.</div><div>Does that e=
xplain? If not, why do you think it wont work?=C2=A0</div></div></div></div=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Why would a random destination MAC addres=
s have anything to do with the next FE in the FE graph?</div><div><br></div=
><div>Presumably, the outer encapsulation is to go from one FE to another F=
E in the graph.=C2=A0 If so, then what</div><div>information the packet bei=
ng processed has is irrelevant.=C2=A0 If not, then you&#39;ve totally faile=
d to explain your</div><div>assumptions and purpose.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span><div></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">4) In Sec 6.2, what happens if none of th=
e optional elements of an IFEInfo are specified? </div></blockquote><div><b=
r></div></span><div>Thanks for catching this.</div><div>There would be no s=
uch table entry allowed (and so no processed packets</div><div>will encount=
er this scenario). We will update the doc to indicate that when the</div><d=
iv>CE inserts policies in the policy table - the FE MUST validate that the =
non</div><div>optional fields are all present (the implementation already d=
oes that).</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>But you =
made them all optional! =C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">How can th=
is work if there&#39;s no required way to describe the destination FE?</div=
></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Am I misunderstanding or are you a=
re implying we need some default</div><div>DSTFE where a lookup failure hap=
pens?</div><div>Last para in 6.1.1 describes what happens on lookup failure=
.</div><span><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace=
"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-co=
lor:rgb(255,253,245)">5) From p. 22, it looks like the IFETable is defined =
assuming only transport over Ethernet.</span></font></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><br></div></span><div>Yes - that is the intent</div></div></div></di=
v></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Why do you have text describing a more g=
eneric solution and then actually define an extremely limited one?</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Alia</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D=
"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,=
245)">6) Sec 10: =C2=A0I think you&#39;ll find that there are security impl=
ications of taking packets and sending them in an Ethernet packet.=C2=A0 No=
w, I realize that the different FEs are probably inside the same device on =
a private network - but you need to clarify why that&#39;s the case.</span>=
</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospac=
e"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-c=
olor:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br>=
</div></span><div>Yes, the scope is within the same network. We will add cl=
arification.</div><span><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospa=
ce"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-=
color:rgb(255,253,245)">Minor Quibble:</span></font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
4px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></=
span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, mon=
ospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;backgro=
und-color:rgb(255,253,245)">a) There are places where this draft talks abou=
t other documents being written.=C2=A0 For instance, on the top of p.13 &qu=
ot;</span></font><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;PT Mono&#=
39;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:14px;line-height:1.214;background-color:rgb(=
255,253,245)">For any mapping towards these definitions a different</span>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0document to describe the mapping, one per transport, is expect=
ed to=C2=A0be defined.&quot; =C2=A0It&#39;s fine to have a process in mind =
- but this is completely unclear, given that the WG is closed.=C2=A0 Are th=
ese documents with a well-known place on-line?=C2=A0 Are these ISE drafts?=
=C2=A0 Do you think these would be AD-sponsored or in rtgwg?</div><br></div=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>We can get rid of s=
uch text altogether to avoid any confusion we are</div><div>talking about e=
thernet only.</div><span><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">b) On the bottom of p. 13, it says &quot;In =
this version of the specification, we only focus on data and metadata.=C2=
=A0 Therefore we are not going to describe how to carry the ExceptionID inf=
ormation (future versions may). &quot; =C2=A0 PLEASE go through the documen=
t and get rid of these bits of tentative and future language.=C2=A0 The doc=
ument is doing and defining what it is.=C2=A0 OWN that and fix the language=
 everywhere. =C2=A0(e.g. bottom of p.14 &quot;would save us&quot;)<div><br>=
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Will do.</div><span><di=
v>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><d=
iv><br><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"PT Mono, Monaco, monospace"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:16.996000289917px;background-color:r=
gb(255,253,245)">Nits:</span></font></div><br>1) On p. 6, &quot;This inform=
ation may include any source and destination=C2=A0information (MAC address =
to use, if ethernet;)&quot; =C2=A0Sadly, I think the ;) needs to go - what =
about &quot;e.g. MAC address to use, if Ethernet)&quot;.<div><br></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>will do.</div><span><div>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div></div=
><div>2) In Sec. 3.1.1, the last paragraph is=C2=A0&quot;The purpose of the=
 inter-FE LFB is to define standard mechanisms for=C2=A0interconnecting FEs=
 and for that reason we are not going to touch<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0anymore on p=
roprietary chip-chip interconnects other than state the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0fac=
t they exist and that it is feasible to have translation to and<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0from proprietary approaches.&quot; =C2=A0is a bit informal.=C2=A0 Cou=
ld you please clean it up a bit?=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div></div><div>For instance=
: =C2=A0&quot;This document defines the inter-FE LFB, a standard mechanism =
for interconnecting FEs.=C2=A0 Existing proprietary approaches, such as chi=
p-chip interconnects, may be able to translate to and from the standard int=
er-FE LFB.&quot;</div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><d=
iv>Will do.</div><span><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div>3) Sec 4 starts with &quot;We address the inter-FE connec=
tivity requirements by proposing the=C2=A0inter-FE LFB class.&quot; =C2=A0R=
emember this will be an RFC - please replace &quot;proposing&quot; with &qu=
ot;defining&quot;.=C2=A0 Similarly, the title of &quot;Figure 6: Packet for=
mat suggestion&quot; - is this what the document is standardizing or not??<=
div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Will do.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the thorough review.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>cheers,</div><div>jamal</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Alia<br><b=
r></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7b41c5b4c53afd051c703209--

