Re: [ftpext] FWD: ftp/959 reboot

Paul Ford-Hutchinson <paulfordh@uk.ibm.com> Mon, 16 August 2010 09:47 UTC

Return-Path: <paulfordh@uk.ibm.com>
X-Original-To: ftpext@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ftpext@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F07733A69A4 for <ftpext@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 02:47:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fKlj3YdRoBQh for <ftpext@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 02:47:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mtagate1.uk.ibm.com (mtagate1.uk.ibm.com [194.196.100.161]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 527F53A699E for <ftpext@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 02:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from d06nrmr1707.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1707.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.39.225]) by mtagate1.uk.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o7G9lbwh004234 for <ftpext@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:47:37 GMT
Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.216]) by d06nrmr1707.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id o7G9lab42183202 for <ftpext@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:47:36 +0100
Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id o7G9larg032488 for <ftpext@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:47:36 +0100
Received: from d06ml069.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06ml069.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.218]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o7G9lZZr032466; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:47:35 +0100
In-Reply-To: <4C685C23.9000801@filezilla-project.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1008051641520.24282@iskra.ottix.net> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1008052249300.11871@tvnag.unkk.fr> <AANLkTi=1ePodG=2G9Ta-=5Fut6x-bQxvq8eLXsVgaUjh@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1008092256460.10815@tvnag.unkk.fr> <AANLkTikB0J_aL7CTwnC17wH2+FS=QgQB5SCL2Jp9iJBd@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1008101303001.1146@iskra.ottix.net> <AANLkTim1VnSPnhmuMa9RC5Ubjnnn=Q+rK6R2riRAznfj@mail.gmail.com> <4C685C23.9000801@filezilla-project.org>
To: Tim Kosse <tim.kosse@filezilla-project.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-KeepSent: CA35852F:D4B1CD2F-80257781:00339E13; type=4; name=$KeepSent
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0.2FP1 SHF149 July 17, 2009
From: Paul Ford-Hutchinson <paulfordh@uk.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <OFCA35852F.D4B1CD2F-ON80257781.00339E13-80257781.0035C98D@uk.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:48:16 +0100
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D06ML069/06/M/IBM(Release 8.0.2FP2|June 22, 2009) at 16/08/2010 10:48:17, Serialize complete at 16/08/2010 10:48:17
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00347FCA80257781_="
Cc: "ftpext@ietf.org" <ftpext@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ftpext] FWD: ftp/959 reboot
X-BeenThere: ftpext@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ftpext.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ftpext>, <mailto:ftpext-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ftpext>
List-Post: <mailto:ftpext@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ftpext-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ftpext>, <mailto:ftpext-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:47:07 -0000

Tim Kosse wrote on 15/08/2010 22:29:07:
 
> 
> Personally I would gladly see some parts of FTP obsoleted with other
> parts updated.
> 
> Without going into the details too much, I would like to obsolete the
> following:
> - All TYPEs other than I and A
> - All MODES other than S (while the proposed MODE Z is a nice idea, I
> don't think it is relevant anymore, internet bandwidth has increased
> substantially since the first MODE Z draft was introduced)
> - All STRUs other than F and the related SNMT command
> - Telnet IP and Synch signals
> - XCWD and related commands

I really don't think this is a good idea.  I certainly use "TYPE E" in my 
FTP server.  IBM Mainframe and OS/400 systems use FTP extensively and need 
alot of these weird and wacky (from a WIN/*IX viewpoint) options.

It is vitally important to remember when tinkering with the protocol that:

A) a 'file' isn't necessarily a chunk of bits sitting sequentially on a 
disk somewhere
B) a 'directory' isn't necessarily a hierarchical tree of containers

For example, in the FTP server I wrote, CDUP makes no sense at all.

> 
> While it would definitely break compatibility with old implementations,
> it would greatly simplify the protocol. I wonder if it is even possible
> or desired to change FTP in such a drastic way or if that is a clear 
no-go.

My 2c - big, big no-go.

Cheers,
Paul