Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments
Aaron Kaplan <aaron@lo-res.org> Sun, 20 March 2016 12:51 UTC
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Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:51:10 +0100
From: Aaron Kaplan <aaron@lo-res.org>
To: Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es>
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References: <003101d17914$247b6b30$6d724190$@unizar.es> <56E8294E.6040807@article19.org> <a1bda1d46bf7fa6c87ea9c678823b38a@unizar.es> <56EC0A21.8010009@article19.org> <00c301d18128$a40e71a0$ec2b54e0$@unizar.es>
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Cc: gaia@irtf.org, 'Niels ten Oever' <niels@article19.org>, 'Matthew Ford' <ford@isoc.org>, 'Internet Research Steering Group' <irsg@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments
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On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 04:12:50PM +0100, Jose Saldana wrote: > The new version of the draft has just been submitted. > > Best regards and thanks a lot! > > Jose The paper rised some eyebrows amongst the community networks - in a surprised, rather negative way. People had the feeling that the paper does not reflect reality very much. Seems like the community networks were not really interviewed properly. > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: gaia [mailto:gaia-bounces@irtf.org] En nombre de Niels ten Oever > > Enviado el: viernes, 18 de marzo de 2016 15:01 > > Para: Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es> > > CC: gaia@irtf.org; Internet Research Steering Group <irsg@irtf.org> > > Asunto: Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network- > > deployments > > > > Thanks for the quick turnaround Jose. This all looks great to me. > > > > Best, > > > > Niels > > > > Niels ten Oever > > Head of Digital > > > > Article 19 > > www.article19.org > > > > PGP fingerprint 8D9F C567 BEE4 A431 56C4 > > 678B 08B5 A0F2 636D 68E9 > > > > On 03/18/2016 11:53 AM, Jose Saldana wrote: > > > Hello Niels. > > > > > > I have added new versions of the sentences inline, starting with [JS]. > > > > > >> Hi Jose, > > >> > > >> Thanks a lot for this. I think the docoment really improved. The > > >> examples at the end of the topologies make everything more concrete > > >> and add relevance to the document. > > >> > > >> I still have a few (small) issues with: > > >> > > >> 1. > > >> The first sentence of the abstract is quite complex. Can you > > >> rephrase? I think the abstract covers the content really well though, > > >> so this is only textual. > > > > > > [JS] This document presents a taxonomy of a set of "Alternative Network > > > Deployments" emerged in the last decade with the aim of bringing > > > Internet connectivity to people. They employ architectures and > > > topologies different from those of mainstream networks, and rely > > > on alternative business models. > > >> > > >> 2. > > >> Add a reference to GAIA charter (source of the quote I presume) in > > >> the introduction. > > > > > > [JS] added: > > > [GAIA] Internet Research Task Force, IRTF., "Charter: Global > > > Access to the Internet for All Research Group GAIA", > > > available at https://irtf.org/gaia , 2016. > > > > > >> > > >> 3. > > >> 1.1, 2nd bullet, 's are used' can be removed > > > > > > > > > [JS] > > > Top-down control of the network and centralized approach. > > > > > >> > > >> 4. > > >> I still have issues with the lemma on Developed and developing > > >> countries in the way it is used now. I think the easiest way to > > >> resolve this is to use the terms 'Global north' and 'global south'. > > >> > > >> I also advise to remove a reference to 'the folk way of living' and > > >> 'the modern technology-driven way of living which began in the > > >> Industrial Revolution'. Because: a) it implies a false linearity. > > >> 'The modern technology driven-way of living' is not the only way to > > >> progress. b) it creates two false unities, not all ways of living > > >> (and uses of > > >> technology) are the same in the global south nor the global north. > > >> There is a multitude of uses and appropriations of technology. > > > > > > [JS] New versions of different paragraphs: > > > > > > [JS] In section 2: > > > > > > o "Global north" and "global south": Although there is no consensus > > > on the terms to be used when talking about the different > > > development level of countries, we will employ the term "global > > > south" to refer to nations with a relatively lower standard of > > > living. This distinction is normally intended to reflect basic > > > economic country conditions. In common practice, Japan in Asia, > > > Canada and the United States in northern America, Australia and > > > New Zealand in Oceania, and Europe are considered "developed" > > > regions or areas [UN], so we will employ the term "global north" > > > when talking about them. > > > > > > [JS] In section 3: > > > Different studies have reported that as much as 60% of the people in > > > the planet do not have Internet connectivity [Sprague], > > > [InternetStats]. In addition, those unconnected are unevenly > > > distributed: only 31 percent of the population in "global south" > > > countries had access in 2014, against 80 percent in "global north" > > > countries [WorldBank2016]. This is one of the reasons behind the > > > inclusion of the objective of providing "significantly increase > > > access to ICT and strive to provide universal and affordable access > > > to internet in LDCs by 2020," as one of the targets in the > > > Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) [SDG], considered as a part of > > > "Goal 9. Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and > > > sustainable industrialization and foster innovation." > > > > > > For the purpose of this document, a distinction between "global > > > north" and "global south" zones is made, highlighting the factors > > > related to ICT (Information and Communication Technologies), which > > > can be quantified in terms of: > > > > > > (...) > > > > > > Some Alternative Networks have been deployed in underserved areas, > > > where citizens may be compelled to take a more active part in the > > > design and implementation of ICT solutions. However, Alternative > > > Networks are also present in some "global north" countries, being > > > built as an alternative to commercial ones managed by mainstream > > > network operators. > > > > > > > > > [JS] 3.1. Urban vs. Rural Areas > > > > > > The differences presented in the previous section are not only > > > present between countries, but within them too. This is especially > > > the case for rural inhabitants, who represent approximately 55% of > > > the world's population [IFAD2011], 78% of them in "global south" > > > countries [ITU2011]. According to the World Bank, adoption gaps > > > "between rural and urban populations are falling for mobile phones > > > but increasing for the internet" [WorldBank2016]. > > > > > > > > > [JS] 4.5. Typical scenarios > > > > > > The scenarios where Alternative Networks are usually deployed can be > > > classified as: > > > > > > o Urban / Rural areas. > > > > > > o "Global north" / "Global south" countries. > > > > > > > > > [JS] 5.3. Shared infrastructure model > > > > > > +----------------+--------------------------------------------------+ > > > | Commercial | shared: companies and users | > > > | model/promoter | | > > > +----------------+--------------------------------------------------+ > > > | Goals and | to eliminate a capital expenditures barrier (to | > > > | motivation | operators); lower the operating expenses | > > > | | (supported by the community); to extend coverage | > > > | | to underserved areas | > > > +----------------+--------------------------------------------------+ > > > | Administration | Non-centralized | > > > +----------------+--------------------------------------------------+ > > > | Technologies | wireless in non-licensed bands, [WiLD] and/or | > > > | | low-cost fiber, mobile femtocells | > > > +----------------+--------------------------------------------------+ > > > | Typical | rural areas, and more particularly rural areas | > > > | scenarios | in "global south" regions | > > > > > > +----------------+--------------------------------------------------+ > > > > > > [JS] 6.1. Wired > > > > > > In many ("global north" or "global south") countries it may happen > > > that national service providers decline to provide connectivity to > > > tiny and isolated villages. So in some cases the villagers have > > > created their own optical fiber networks. This is the case in > > > Lowenstedt in Germany [Lowenstedt], or some parts of Guifi.net > > > [Cerda-Alabern]. > > > > > >> > > >> 5. > > >> Chapter 3. Scenarios where Alternative Networks are deployed Replace > > >> 'in' in first sentence with 'on' > > > > > > [JS] done > > > > > >> > > >> 6. > > >> When you talk about WSIS, it might be good to talk about it in the > > >> past tense. AFAIK the new workplan after WSIS+10 evaluation has not > > >> been finalized, but I might be wrong. > > >> If the workplan has been finalized it might be good to reference to that. > > > > > > [JS] This is the new version: > > > > > > In this context, the World Summit of the Information Society aimed at > > > achieving "a people-centred, inclusive and development-oriented > > > Information Society, where everyone can create, access, utilize and > > > share information and knowledge. Therefore, enabling individuals, > > > communities and people to achieve their full potential in promoting > > > their sustainable development and improving their quality of life". > > > It also called upon "governments, private sector, civil society and > > > international organizations" to actively engage to work towards the > > > bridging of the digital divide [WSIS]. > > > > > > [JS]: However, it seems that WSIS is still alive: > > > https://www.itu.int/net4/wsis/forum/2016/ > > > > > >> > > >> Hope this helps. > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> > > >> Niels > > >> > > >> > > > > > > [JS] I have also corrected some typos, as suggested by > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gaia/current/msg01102.html > > > > > > [JS] I have also added a "may" in this paragraph: > > > > > > 7.1.2. Routing protocols > > > > > > As stated in previous sections, Alternative Networks are composed of > > > possibly different layer 2 devices, resulting in a mesh of nodes. > > > Connection between different nodes is not guaranteed and the link > > > stability can vary strongly over time. To tackle this, some > > > Alternative Networks use mesh network routing protocols while other > > > networks use more traditional routing protocols. Some networks > > > operate multiple routing protocols in parallel. For example, they > > > *may* use a mesh protocol inside different islands and rely on > > > traditional routing protocols to connect these islands. > > > > > > > > > I attach the new version. I will upload it to the IETF web as soon as > > > you are ok with these changes. > > > > > > Thanks again, > > > > > > Jose > > > > > >> > > >> Niels ten Oever > > >> Head of Digital > > >> > > >> Article 19 > > >> www.article19.org > > >> > > >> PGP fingerprint 8D9F C567 BEE4 A431 56C4 > > >> 678B 08B5 A0F2 636D 68E9 > > >> > > >> On 03/08/2016 09:25 AM, Jose Saldana wrote: > > >>> Hi Niels, > > >>> > > >>> According to your review, we have built a new version of the draft. > > >>> We have not uploaded it yet to the IETF web page. > > >>> > > >>> This e-mail contains three attachments: > > >>> > > >>> - These are your general comments, and our responses: > > >>> General_Comments_Review_Niels.txt > > >>> > > >>> - These are the detailed comments ([JS] means Jose Saldana), added > > >>> to your review (marked with "#"): > > >>> draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-03 edit NtO_JS2.txt > > >>> > > >>> - And this would be the new version of the draft: > > >>> draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-03c.txt > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thank you very much! > > >>> > > >>> Jose > > >>> > > >>>> -----Mensaje original----- > > >>>> De: gaia [mailto:gaia-bounces@irtf.org] En nombre de Niels ten > > >>>> Oever Enviado el: martes, 02 de febrero de 2016 18:11 > > >>>> Para: Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es>; gaia@irtf.org > > >>>> CC: 'Javier Simó' <javier.simo@urjc.es>; irsg@irtf.org > > >>>> Asunto: Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: > > >>>> draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network- > > >>>> deployments > > >>>> > > >>> Hi Jose, > > >>> > > >>> Thanks for this. Reply inline: > > >>> > > >>> On 02/02/2016 01:44 PM, Jose Saldana wrote: > > >>>>>> Dear Niels, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> First of all, thank you very much for your detailed review. As > > >>>>>> said today, your comments will be useful for building an improved > > version. > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >>> My pleasure! > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>>> But I think here is something we should decide now: what to do > > >>>>>> about "deployment experiences", i.e. point 4 of your review. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> 4. It could perhaps be interesting to provide some additional > > >>>>>>>>>> information on actual alternative network deployments, > > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps by providing some case studies and, on the basis of > > >>>>>>>>>> these, a set of best practices / recommendations for specific > > >>>>>>>>>> situations. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> As Javier says, we have discussed this possibility in the GAIA > > >>>>>> meeting in Prague > > >>>>>> (https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/minutes-93-gaia): > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> "Lixia Zhang: The Internet didn’t start as a community effort. On > > >>>>>> the draft, what is the main purpose? I’m interested in what you > > >>>>>> have learned, and what advice you may have. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Niels ten Oever: This is a great overview, but how will you set > > >>>>>> boundaries. There are lots of handbook materials that could be > > >>>>>> linked to, to avoid making this draft grow to 100s of pages. In > > >>>>>> particular we could define more on centralised v. decentralised > > >>>>>> approaches. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Jane Coffin: Energy is also important for rural areas. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Mat: I think the original motivation was to get a definition of > > >>>>>> “Alternative Networks”, it’s not scoped to be 100s of pages, but > > >>>>>> more can we define what we mean as Alternative Networks, and > > then > > >>>>>> provide examples. Lixia’s suggestion of looking at learning > > >>>>>> outcomes, could be a future document that may be useful." > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> We also talked about that in the list, and we (more or less) > > >>>>>> agreed on this solution: to first focus on a "taxonomy" draft, > > >>>>>> and leave "deployment experiences" for future work. > > >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gaia/current/msg00831.html > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> In fact, we already removed some content from the draft, as it > > >>>>>> was related to "deployment experiences". See parts removed from > > >>>>>> Section > > >>>>>> 4 in these two versions: > > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-net > > >>>>>> work- > > >>>>>> > > >>> deployments-01&url2=draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments- > > >>> 00 > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> And we have also asked for volunteers for the "deployment > > >>>>>> experiences" draft: > > >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gaia/current/msg00916.html > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> So my opinion is that we should avoid including this in the > > >>>>>> present document. As you said in Prague, it is a matter of > > >>>>>> defining some boundaries on the scope of the document. What do > > you think? > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >>> I would leave that for the authors and the group to decide. But > > >>> AFAIK there are a few major deployments / projects out there, such > > >>> as Freifunk (Germany), Guifi (Catalunia), Rhizomatica (Mexico), and > > >>> perhaps Commotion (Tunisia, Redhook, Congo). Referencing these could > > >>> bring the draft closer to actual practices (and with that increase > > >>> relevance). Another approach could be providing a concrete example > > >>> for every topology you define under 4. > > >>> > > >>> I completely agree with you that deployment experiences should not > > >>> go into this draft, that would be too much. The same is true for > > >>> providing an exhaustive list of implementations. > > >>> > > >>>>>> Thanks in advance, > > >>> > > >>> Hope this helps, > > >>> > > >>> Niels > > >>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Jose > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -----Mensaje original----- De: gaia > > >>>>>>> [mailto:gaia-bounces@irtf.org] En nombre de Javier Simó Enviado > > >>>>>>> el: lunes, 01 de febrero de 2016 14:09 Para: gaia@irtf.org > > >>>>>>> Asunto: Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: > > >>>>>>> draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network- deployments > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> For the most important points (the most detailed ones), there > > >>>>>>> are a few good interdisciplinary people in this lists with a > > >>>>>>> background in development studies. I guess that it is just a > > >>>>>>> matter of these people polishing the text. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> For point 4, ... well, the decission after Prague was to TAKE > > >>>>>>> OUT the experiences and build another document. If experiences > > >>>>>>> are required in here, then, we should reverse that decission and > > >>>>>>> pilot a controlled introduction of best practices / case studies > > >>>>>>> in the appropriate subsections. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Best Javier > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> El 01/02/16 a las 13:58, Jose Saldana escribió: > > >>>>>>>> Thank you very much, Niels! > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> We will take your comments into account in order to build an > > >>>>>>>> improved version of > > >>>>>>> the draft. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Best regards, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Jose > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----Mensaje original----- De: gaia > > >>>>>>>>> [mailto:gaia-bounces@irtf.org] En nombre de Mat Ford Enviado > > >>>>>>>>> el: lunes, 01 de febrero de 2016 13:27 Para: Niels ten Oever > > >>>>>>>>> <niels@article19.org>; > > >>>>>>>>> draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network- deployments@ietf.org CC: > > >>>>>>>>> gaia <gaia@irtf.org>; Internet Research Steering Group > > >>>>>>>>> <irsg@irtf.org> Asunto: Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: > > >>>>>>>>> draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network- deployments > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks very much for the detailed review Niels, it is > > >>>>>>>>> valuable. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Authors - please discuss how you would like to address these > > >>>>>>>>> comments and let Niels and myself know. If there is a need for > > >>>>>>>>> further discussion, please let’s keep that on gaia@irtf.org. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Mat > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 Jan 2016, at 23:35, Niels ten Oever > > >>>>>>>>>> <niels@article19.org> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Dear all, > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Please find my review of > > >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-d > > >>>>>>>>>> eploy > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>> me > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>> nt s-03.txt below. This is my first IRSG review, so please bear with > > >>>>>>>>>> me. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I mostly followed > > >>>>>>>>>> https://wiki.tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5743#section-2.2 and > > >>>>>>>>>> academic review practices, but please let me know where I > > >>>>>>>>>> might have misstepped. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I hope this is useful. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> 0. The topic of the draft is very relevant and timely and > > >>>>>>>>>> brings together many different angles that are needed to > > >>>>>>>>>> address the multidisciplinary nature of access, the Internet, > > >>>>>>>>>> and community owned > > >>>>>>> networks. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> 1. The issue of the digital divide is approached from a > > >>>>>>>>>> 'development studies' paradigm (e.g. developing countries), > > >>>>>>>>>> quite some scientific literature has been published about > > >>>>>>>>>> this topic. Most current literature acknowledges that for > > >>>>>>>>>> instance term 'developing country' is problematic because it > > >>>>>>>>>> assumes that all countries are on a similar trajectory, from > > >>>>>>>>>> 'underdeveloped' to 'western'. > > >>>>>>>>>> Empirical data shows that this is not the case. More accurate > > >>>>>>>>>> would be to address differential developmental trajectories > > >>>>>>>>>> by referring to the Global North vs. the Global South, or > > >>>>>>>>>> using other frames. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Also terms like 'Digital Divide', 'Data Revolution', > > >>>>>>>>>> 'Information Society' as well as the 'WSIS process' have been > > >>>>>>>>>> dissected, discussed and interpreted in quite a variety of > > >>>>>>>>>> ways. it might be good to engage with the literature on this > > >>>>>>>>>> if you would like to use these terms, and if so, refer to the > > >>>>>>>>>> relevant sources. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Same is true for the method or model of knowledge transfer > > >>>>>>>>>> that is mentioned in the draft. At several places it is > > >>>>>>>>>> implied that knowledge travels from North to South and from > > >>>>>>>>>> Urban to Rural, which might be a one dimensional way of > > >>>>>>>>>> representing a quite multifaceted process of technology > > >>>>>>>>>> appropriation and development. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> In terms of methodology: you are clearly coming at this > > >>>>>>>>>> problem from a multidisciplinary approach. Which is great, > > >>>>>>>>>> considering the multidisciplinary nature of the Internet and > > >>>>>>>>>> the problem you are addressing. However, if you do decide to > > >>>>>>>>>> use concepts from different fields and disciplines (like for > > >>>>>>>>>> instance urban and rural from urban planning, demand and > > >>>>>>>>>> provision from economics or the digital divide from > > >>>>>>>>>> sociology) it is important to make this explicit. I would > > >>>>>>>>>> suggest adding a sub-section in which you explain how you > > >>>>>>>>>> built your multidisciplinary research method and why you use > > >>>>>>>>>> the concepts you applied. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> 2. There is a lot of doubling between abstract and > > >>>>>>>>>> introduction. I recommend reducing the abstract. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> 3. The discussion under point 1. and 2. is maybe not > > >>>>>>>>>> necessary for achieving the goal of providing a a taxonomy of > > >>>>>>>>>> alternative network deployments. However, Maybe the first > > >>>>>>>>>> part could be shorter. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> 4. It could perhaps be interesting to provide some additional > > >>>>>>>>>> information on actual alternative network deployments, > > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps by providing some case studies and, on the basis of > > >>>>>>>>>> these, a set of best practices / recommendations for specific > > >>>>>>>>>> situations. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> In the attached file more inline editorial comments and > > >>>>>>>>>> suggestions are provided. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Best, > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Niels > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> -- Niels ten Oever Head of Digital > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Article 19 www.article19.org > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> PGP fingerprint 8D9F C567 BEE4 A431 56C4 678B 08B5 A0F2 > > >>>>>>>>>> 636D 68E9 > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Niels ten Oever Head of Digital > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Article 19 www.article19.org > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> PGP fingerprint 8D9F C567 BEE4 A431 56C4 678B 08B5 A0F2 > > >>>>>>>>>> 636D 68E9 > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On 01/14/2016 12:39 PM, Mat Ford wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi folks, > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> The GAIA RG has successfully concluded an RG Last Call for > > >>>>>>>>>>> the document > > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternativ > > >>>>>>>>>>>> e-net > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> wo > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> rk > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -deployments/ > > >>>>>>>>>>> As document shepherd I’m now looking for someone from > > the > > >>>>>>>>>>> IRSG to review > > >>>>>>>>> the document. Any volunteers? > > >>>>>>>>>>> If no one volunteers, Lisandro Granville is top of the > > >>>>>>>>>>> list: > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/IRSGReviewL > > >>>>>>>>>>> og > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> Mat > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> <draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-03 edit > > >>>>>>>>>> NtO.txt> > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > gaia mailing > > >>>>>>>>> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia > > mailing > > >>>>>>>> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- Fco. Javier > > >>>>>>> Simó Reigadas <javier.simo@urjc.es> Subdirector de Ord. Docente > > >>>>>>> ETS de Ingeniería de Telecomunicación D-204, Departamental III > > >>>>>>> Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid) Tel: > > >>>>>>> 914888428, Fax: 914887500 Web personal: > > >>>>>>> http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia > > mailing > > >>>>>>> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> gaia mailing list > > >>>> gaia@irtf.org > > >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia -- Physicist are there to find the laws of nature. Engineers are there to work around them
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Mat Ford
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Mat Ford
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Javier Simó
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Niels ten Oever
- [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternati… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aldebaro Klautau
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Santiago Ferreira
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aaron Kaplan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aaron Kaplan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Eggert, Lars
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Vesna Manojlovic
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… future
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… future
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Nicolás Echániz
- [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-… future
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Mitar
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… future
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Mitar
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Jose Saldana