Re: [gaia] 6Ghz wifi

Jane Coffin <coffin@isoc.org> Wed, 03 October 2018 16:58 UTC

Return-Path: <coffin@isoc.org>
X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76C9124C04 for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 09:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isoc.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GhEPuBkp573q for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 09:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM02-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02on0084.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.37.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25A20124BE5 for <gaia@irtf.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 09:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isoc.org; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=kRTaM1JqNQd7Z1prZFg+nePqV/rpw+grDfGuc7BvfNw=; b=XdKfJY5Pz8M2d/Wu4jsQAMwToGsv2iixwQ5aAseYySJVXWZ8NKxmft1GAAlqqKvsUrQcbkpQfPUdPi7R08+RjcYeu5oVhhufbzVK825Hww2fPGEkB7wj10H09vi7wC2/pA0oLn3KBSg40JqbJxwR5DjSrNvd4djCpJ+c0hppBJo=
Received: from BN6PR06MB3025.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.173.141.23) by BN6PR06MB2436.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.173.21.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1207.19; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:58:09 +0000
Received: from BN6PR06MB3025.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d971:bc48:fdb2:c09c]) by BN6PR06MB3025.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d971:bc48:fdb2:c09c%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1207.018; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:58:09 +0000
From: Jane Coffin <coffin@isoc.org>
To: Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org>, gaia <gaia@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [gaia] 6Ghz wifi
Thread-Index: AQHUWtYspgIeCFfUJEeUA+rVE7mOkKUNHU+AgAAN5ACAAF+MAP//4EcA
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:58:08 +0000
Message-ID: <C3C0C975-AAEB-4ABB-95C2-51AD2C581E1D@isoc.org>
References: <CAPaG1A=HdY188AKvwnLk5B66rNnNuE=7NO3YcCLkyiNWo6LEdg@mail.gmail.com> <96bc9715-f7f2-a772-fb97-b09c2bdd65ed@digitaldissidents.org> <E022FEBC-366E-41CD-B452-58CA19982322@isoc.org> <CAD_CWO1wiTo5uDDQ6SqcCGPw8C4hKrw6hzAJML=a7t8CNLy5=Q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAD_CWO1wiTo5uDDQ6SqcCGPw8C4hKrw6hzAJML=a7t8CNLy5=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.10.2.180910
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=coffin@isoc.org;
x-originating-ip: [2001:4870:400e:402:1c7b:b236:6d9e:3443]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR06MB2436; 6:Iih7WUkMIQCMe6S26OSYZs4szRNRS8GMJQkdZyZXvRqKme0eugRP7E1NAVTPXgZ3Zt0KhuxdmF566/TLCUqV6c2bQZFWcPSJyeodnVRbktQGMBylOvi8cGhl3NxKsDCY6G7ax952aDpe1LnhCIBZGMT5xlCRiWNZDe7Sl0idmEsTuNepKkWzcENth15bvInajrzQE3O+fQVL7a/ty4q9ACCNQeao/lvMI57tJN+y/g0Vp7S0g3JBP3Y4MXsZ2m8Hjh+2ZkcwxagcLkFooYMYMJ7pkZ+C8gxXJJSVxHZ7E8ElEJlpj1QIUadQonyO6Vk7LWsDfJWrTqXS/s/2rk1XIF/0QtR9gZH5gfFidRZXplme4JtcE+vQ/2Phx8oPQKap1CXMrcm9cF+IqhQkqam9XBTa2IDKG7mk9ia73W95eAO7qKnSP7MrltC/imNRoSnYtqjupBsA4fFfN3532WtjWw==; 5:bqpKGDvqtto3JHXrMyh3hbIvcJStuDDB0mNZYAgMYf2jhKrw9ELaIm2E/AJdtH1LrXeNx5D4SFgk8BtbLAOX2ypgLB6Dndec1QzR71/+ni7dRgUQD3Y7FzianMdjPbrN8kLNXpWV1od/XxGOi/hqQj4pwUzbkw1+c5ghQ3nsorQ=; 7:O8fN4AYUM9sTiqhY8MMtjzI0N6+JEN2KW69GaoiwI0oY/aEt+31/1Uk7Jov9ryfYYyE82DUq2E0f1nzey9G0LjFb3hYD/Dvit5/ADJhP/s/ipGq/c/c6b6Vvq7UwfPixBbJaIqPLnPP+6kqxq1RduoiCV1yNN6OoEXSgWGUdz1YLR23kowTyaP2hvQuH5TBPIwjGUzwP+54u6avLuNBtU2efknoXC1qYMjwVLhF7UgQ8+Gyln0rgov7cRFmSm3tT
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9e35632d-1021-47c6-e2ce-08d629516571
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600074)(711020)(2017052603328)(7153060)(49563074)(7193020); SRVR:BN6PR06MB2436;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN6PR06MB2436:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BN6PR06MB24366544BA276A3061914852B3E90@BN6PR06MB2436.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(72170088055959)(21748063052155)(28532068793085)(190501279198761)(227612066756510);
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(102415395)(6040522)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(93006095)(93001095)(10201501046)(3231355)(944501410)(4982022)(4983020)(52105095)(3002001)(149066)(150057)(6041310)(20161123562045)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(20161123560045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(201708071742011)(7699051); SRVR:BN6PR06MB2436; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN6PR06MB2436;
x-forefront-prvs: 0814A2C7A3
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(346002)(136003)(396003)(376002)(39850400004)(366004)(53754006)(189003)(199004)(71200400001)(5660300001)(105586002)(102836004)(106356001)(14444005)(256004)(5024004)(58126008)(81156014)(8936002)(99286004)(8676002)(81166006)(46003)(68736007)(316002)(36756003)(486006)(11346002)(2616005)(476003)(93886005)(446003)(110136005)(71190400001)(83716004)(186003)(86362001)(15974865002)(7736002)(6116002)(6246003)(53386004)(82746002)(236005)(6306002)(54896002)(25786009)(99936001)(2906002)(6512007)(53936002)(478600001)(606006)(229853002)(14454004)(6486002)(966005)(6436002)(5250100002)(2900100001)(33656002)(53546011)(6506007)(76176011)(97736004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BN6PR06MB2436; H:BN6PR06MB3025.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: isoc.org does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: EEymbI/a4G9sMEoVLvUs77Oer7u998nOxGAGemE+h590bEUGVjOkGp0o78gEb0So0WxMmkIVuv/zdLXgLWHhtBlQbr8voiWvCygAFAcoHlIMwqS3WeOVwioffsyoTMurhZ31Q8qVPcJhbDzl1B96yMlVApdcBm1LmFrI9de7Rg8ZVt7XaGhk/ogccXLifIldHRK06DyXB6KvPyhZ91X0u1mwOzSoakpTwXePnVOfTG/m932vsMdKiCpX0+p2/2k0VgiRSjl3RxskDUzHAJjd2REhUsLx0NmOeomQC5pGMTomdGVzBR0J8ZgbSCqEn9JeEm9KeMn6Hu3hi+UK6/jm3bzpWRcMt4ZSUKNyuqMCBxc=
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha256; boundary="B_3621416288_1427024220"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9e35632d-1021-47c6-e2ce-08d629516571
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Oct 2018 16:58:08.9462 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR06MB2436
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gaia/5m20kTGTBq5z2UWFqoLE_a1kI6g>
Subject: Re: [gaia] 6Ghz wifi
X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All <gaia.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gaia/>
List-Post: <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:58:16 -0000

Good people of GAIA.

 

Holy Smokes.  The minute the spectrum, Radio Regs (the RRs), and/or World Radio Conference (WRC) agendae are triggered do things get interesting fast 😉

 

I reached out to a colleague who is far more in the weeds from the WRC side… as Niels’ query was interesting from many sides for me…

Here is the response I received and note the accompanying doc…Take this as you will, but note that the WRC Agenda is the guiding agenda for the WRC which amends a treaty – the Radio Regulations (RRs mentioned above).

 

“When you say "6GHz WiFi" it would be useful to be specific about what frequency range [is] being considered.  WiFi is an application in the mobile service, so it may not be utilized in bands that do not have a Mobile Service allocation.  Additionally, for those bands with a mobile service allocation in this range, the use of RLANs is guided by (WRC) Resolution 229 (see attached), which was adopted by the WRC-03 and revised by the WRC-12.   As some companies want to expand the use of WiFi in this range,  WRC-19 has an item on its agenda (AI 1.16), which deals with wireless access systems (RLANS) between 5150 - 5925 MHz, which is as follows:

 

1.16    to consider issues related to wireless access systems, including radio local area networks (WAS/RLAN), in the frequency bands between 5 150 MHz and 5 925 MHz, and take the appropriate regulatory actions, including additional spectrum allocations to the mobile service, in accordance with Resolution 239 [COM6/22] (WRC 15);

 

The bands allocated to the mobile service between 5150 - 5925 MHz, as well as bands above that range, are also allocated to a number of other services on a co-primary basis. You should be aware that there is strong evidence (i.e. from spectrum monitoring) that shows that the current use of WiFi in this band is causing serious interference into the other services.  So, the future expanded use is probably going to be a hotly debated issue at the WRC-19.”

 

See attached WRC Res. 229.

 

Best,

Jane

 

 

 

 

Internet Society | www.internetsociety.org

Skype:  janercoffin

Mobile/WhatsApp:  +1.202.247.8429

 

From: gaia <gaia-bounces@irtf.org> on behalf of Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org>
Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:52 AM
To: "gaia@irtf.org" <gaia@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [gaia] 6Ghz wifi

 

Hi all, 

 

Largely driven by the US and actively supported by chipset manufacturers like Broadcom, Intel, Hewlett-Packard and others as well as Facebook.  There is work going on in Europe as well but a year or two behind where things are in the US.  I am attaching the details of a current study underway.  Worth noting that while the US Is looking from 5.9GHz up to 7GHz, the European study is only 5.9GHz to 6.4GHz.  

 

I don't think this is on the agenda for WRC19.  My guess is that countries like the US will drive forward this this, manufacturers will jump on board and other countries will follow suit with the ITU/WRC ratifying things post facto some time in the mid 2020's

 

This is a standard that is likely to be backed by any organisation that want to delivery high definition streaming content.

 

Cheers... Steve

 

 

 

On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 10:10, Jane Coffin <coffin@isoc.org> wrote:

Hi Niels -

Each country regulates at the national level within the parameters they set, bounded by the radio regulations in some part, but driven by national implementation and market, reg/pol, and other conditions.

We have seen some countries pushing back on the concept of unlicensed, license-free anything.

So, I do not think this is a ubiquitous issue driven by ITU-R for a number of reasons.  Likely a result of congestion in other bands.
But, I can ask some colleagues if this was something that the last WRC agenda set?
Or, do others know?

Best,
Jane



Internet Society | www.internetsociety.org

Skype:  janercoffin

Mobile/WhatsApp:  +1.202.247.8429

On 10/3/18, 3:20 AM, "gaia on behalf of Niels ten Oever" <gaia-bounces@irtf.org on behalf of lists@digitaldissidents.org> wrote:

    Is this a unilateral plan, or is this something that is also in the
    works in the ITU-R ?

    Cheers,

    Niels

    On 10/03/2018 07:01 AM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan wrote:
    > /FCC will ‘propose new rules’ allowing Wi-Fi devices to operate in the 6
    > GHz band/
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > https://wifinowevents.com/news-and-blog/a-new-era-in-wi-fi-fcc-fast-tracks-wi-fi-in-6-ghz-band/amp/
    > <https://wifinowevents.com/news-and-blog/a-new-era-in-wi-fi-fcc-fast-tracks-wi-fi-in-6-ghz-band/amp/>
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > gaia mailing list
    > gaia@irtf.org
    > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
    > 

    -- 
    Niels ten Oever
    Researcher and PhD Candidate
    Datactive Research Group
    University of Amsterdam

    PGP fingerprint        2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488
                       643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3

    _______________________________________________
    gaia mailing list
    gaia@irtf.org
    https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia


 

-- 

+1 902 529 0046

stevesong@nsrc.org

http://nsrc..org