Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan
Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk> Tue, 19 January 2021 18:57 UTC
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From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2021 18:57:29 +0000
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To: Matogoro Jabera <jaberamatogoro@gmail.com>
Cc: David Johnson <david.lloyd.johnson@gmail.com>, gaia <gaia@irtf.org>, Leandro Navarro <leandro@ac.upc.edu>
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Subject: Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan
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We all have a common understanding that telecommunication systems were not > designed for the poor. Most of us, we are working to change that > philosophy. It always comes with alot of cost for pioneers. > > It actually isnt the case in India..Jio (a huge cash cow) made mobile phones and 4G accessible to every Singh, Iyer and Patels et al :) - 4G fast internet is literally available for the lowest cost you can imagine in India.. It was due to privatisation and competition.. saying that still half a billion ppl are not supposedly connected - but thats due to language barrier.. Arjuna > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> > <#m_6594583065023529357_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 2:00 PM David Johnson < > david.lloyd.johnson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I hear you Arjuna - this is a tough space >> >> I think a robust debate is needed on the right mix of government / >> private company / community involvement in sustainably expanding access >> >> The ideal model for me is >> >> - Government create a very open environment with spectrum / licensing >> policy that encourages new small companies to enter the market and prevents >> e.g. incumbents charging high inter connect fees to block new players from >> market share, open access for towers, fibre, spectrum sharing for unused >> spectrum etc. >> >> - Gov or private-public partnerships create a wholesale access network >> that extends into areas with lower market viability with tax incentives >> etc. to encourage private companies to do roll out >> >> - Small retail ISPs or cooperatives / community networks connect to this >> wholesale access network to private access services ... whether it should >> be cooperative (community network) / small private ISP will depend on the >> local situation in the country - I've seen how tough it is to get a >> community network to work in a low-income area in South Africa ... >> especially where members are worrying about having food for their family >> over the next week. In some cases it may make sense to start with the >> infrastructure installed and run by a small micro-ISP or NGO (with a high >> percentage of local employees) based on a pure commercial model or >> cross-funded by an NGO which may have education/health/youth development >> funding that needs connectivity - perhaps with a view of slowly >> transferring all ownership to the local community and starting with the >> services and content component following a cooperative / community network >> model with members deciding on the rules for what content and services are >> available in the community and what user policies to put in place. >> >> My views on the right model are constantly changing as I see what works >> and what doesn't >> >> Regards >> David >> >> >> On 19 Jan 2021, at 12:35, Arjuna Sathiaseelan < >> arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote: >> >> I think there is a fundamental problem gaia/or anything related needs to >> strongly address.. >> >> Based on some of our experiences trying to work with communities to solve >> their own connectivity/content problems >> >> 1/ there is relatively no money to be made for organisations (either no >> willingness to pay - they want free services or just cant afford to pay).. >> this is a fundamental problem..we have been working with several community >> networks now - for them to deploy infrastructure they need either ISOC to >> fund it or a similar organisation to fund it.. without external funding >> none of these organisations can sustainably deploy or maintain their >> infrastructure..there are outliers but that depends on the community's >> purchasing power.. >> >> unless markets are opened up for new entrants - which is again correlated >> to money - sustainable connectivity is never going to happen. >> >> 2/ there are other problems to solve like power outages, infrastructure >> financing requirements, obsolete/sub standard mobile phones etc that are >> key to be solved (again in a sustainable way).. >> >> this all points out to government/regulatory angle that needs more work.. >> privatisation and competion is key.. >> >> all the community work is great but if there isnt an effort from the >> government i dont think anything is going to happen in this space. If there >> isnt money to be made nothing is going to happen is the bottom line. >> >> regards >> Arjuna >> >> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 10:20 David Johnson, <david.lloyd.johnson@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all >>> >>> Those are great topics Leandro. I have a few pet interests this year >>> which may be relevant >>> >>> - I received some funding from the Ford Foundation on looking barriers >>> to contributions to open source "digital infrastructure" from Africa - the >>> label given by Ford Foundation for all the protocols / applications etc. >>> that make up the Internet and the WWW. This could be a wider topic on how >>> to ensure that there is more representation from all countries rather than >>> just a few in the Global North to IETF, projects on GitHub related to >>> protocols / application son the Internet. >>> >>> - I really feel like Covid-19 has forced many educators to rethink the >>> way learning happens - not just in lockdown but beyond and I think it may >>> be interesting to pick this specific topic for IETF ... its connected to >>> many of these topics (public vs private nets, network for everything and >>> people etc.) but with a lens of thinking of new ways of learning that >>> provides more equitable education in more vulnerable communities. >>> >>> - Related to the above - I noticed a few countries attempting zero >>> rating - making education / health / government sites free on all networks >>> during lockdown - but if often doesn't work very well because of https, >>> embedded links, sites making use of general platforms like Youtube for >>> video delivery etc. I think it would be an interesting topic to dig into - >>> how to make zero rating work well but also ensuring that communities have a >>> say in what is zero rated >>> >>> Regards >>> David >>> >>> >>> >>> On 19 Jan 2021, at 12:05, Leandro Navarro <leandro@ac.upc.edu> wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> I hope 2021 is way better than 2020+1. This is a message to share ideas >>> for a 2021 plan to discuss topics in different events (IETF meetings and >>> interim) and volunteers to present or organize themes. >>> What you’d like to see? >>> >>> Some initial ideas: >>> >>> - internet minimum common denominator: roadblocks, opportunities, >>> solutions for an internet for everyone (tech, legal, regulatory, >>> investment, etc) >>> >>> - internet for people and the planet: the internet as part of the >>> problem and part of the solution? (how an internet for everyone can be >>> sustainable) >>> >>> - a network for every-thing and people: challenges and opportunities >>> (IoT, home networks, new satellite internets/ISPs, IPv6 finally?, corporate >>> nets, mobile public & community nets) >>> >>> - public vs private internet: traffic, content, neutrality >>> >>> - the maintenance of a public internet commons: software, protocols >>> interoperability, applications, infrastructure (e.g. NTP, IXP, etc) >>> >>> - the pandemic and post-pandemic Internet >>> >>> I can volunteer to organize a couple of sessions on some of these >>> topics, and I’d be happy to support new faces too. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> -- >>> Leandro Navarro >>> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gaia mailing list >>> gaia@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gaia mailing list >>> gaia@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> > <#m_6594583065023529357_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan | http://sathiaseelan.org
- [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Leandro Navarro
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan David Johnson
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan David Johnson
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Matogoro Jabera
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Jane Coffin
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Matogoro Jabera
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Marc Bruyere
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Jane Coffin
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Mallory Knodel
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Michael J. Oghia
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Jane Coffin
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Jane Coffin
- Re: [gaia] Ideas for a 2021 plan Jane Coffin