Re: [gaia] draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments. Mitar review, question #3. Typical scenarios

I like the definition of urban, but the rural one is not helpful.

The important point really is the population density more than anything
else.

I might not fit, but I think the rural definition is actually very
important for another reason --- we need a good one for policy makers.  In
particular, we want policies that help rural networks, but the US
definition at least has hurt things.  In particular, FCC has options for
secondary licenses for under-served areas, but the areas are census blocks,
which are bad proxy for rural. The consequence is that carriers cover tiny
part of a mostly rural block, and then the whole block counts as covered.

We want to encourage the idea that blocks with low population density are
the important policy-relevant idea of "rural" and those boundaries should
mostly avoid mixing urban and rural areas.  Having smaller blocks might be
enough, but even so, the reasoning should be explicit.

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es> wrote:

> Well, a possible solution is to define “urban” first (there are some
> definitions), and say that “rural” is the opposite (according to what Rute
> says).
>
>
>
> What about this?
>
>
>
>    o  Urban zone.  The definition of "urban" does vary between
>
>       countries, as shown in [UNStats].  For example, in the United
>
>       States they are defined as "Agglomerations of 2 500 or more
>
>       inhabitants, generally having population densities of 1 000
>
>       persons per square mile or more."  In China the term "city" is
>
>       proper of those designated by the State Council.  In Liberia they
>
>       are "Localities of 2 000 or more inhabitants."  In France they are
>
>       "communes containing an agglomeration of more than 2 000
>
>       inhabitants living in contiguous houses or with not more than 200
>
>       metres between houses."  In Guam, they are "agglomerations of 2
>
>       500 or more inhabitants, generally having population densities of
>
>       1 000 persons per square mile or more, referred to as "urban
>
>       clusters"".
>
>
>
>    o  Rural zone.  The document will use this term as oposed to "urban".
>
>       A definition of "rural " was proposed by G.  P.  Wibberley in 1972
>
>       [Wibberley]: "The word describes those parts of a country which
>
>       show unmistakable signs of being dominated by extensive uses of
>
>       land, either at the present time or in the immediate past.  It is
>
>       important to emphasise that these extensive uses might have had a
>
>       domination over an area which has now gone because this allows us
>
>       to look at settlements which to the eye still appear to be rural
>
>       but which, in practice, are merely an extension of the city
>
>       resulting from the development of the commuter train and the
>
>       private motor car" [Clot].
>
>
>
> Jose
>
> PS: I think this would be more than enough. Everyone has an idea of
> “rural” in his mind, but we cannot aspire to arrive to a tight definition
> of that term in an IRTF document ;-)
>
>
>
> *De:* Rute C. Sofia [mailto:rute.sofia@ulusofona.pt]
> *Enviado el:* miércoles, 13 de abril de 2016 14:36
> *Para:* Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk>; Jim
> Forster <jrforster@mac.com>
> *CC:* gaia <gaia@irtf.org>; Eric A. BREWER <brewer@berkeley.edu>; Mitar <
> mmitar@gmail.com>; Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es>; Henning Schulzrinne
> <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
> *Asunto:* Re: [gaia] draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments.
> Mitar review, question #3. Typical scenarios
>
>
>
> Hello Arjuna, Henning, Jim,
>
> The rural area definition relates with density. In the USA,
> https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/urban-rural.html
> The Census Bureau identifies two types of urban areas:
>
>    - Urbanized Areas (UAs) of 50,000 or more people;
>    - Urban Clusters (UCs) of at least 2,500 and less than 50,000 people.
>
> “Rural” encompasses all population, housing, and territory not included
> within an urban area.
>
> In Europe (
> http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/docgener/work/2014_01_new_urban.pdf
> )
> Thinly populated area (alternative name: rural area)
>      •    More than 50 % of the population living in rural
> grid cells.
>
> So, defining rural as thinly populated areas is relevant (and then,
> defining "thinly" :)). Despite the fact that (some) rural areas may be
> sustainable, the fact is that rural areas, due to lack of
> density/capilarity should be treated as a specific type of "smart"
> communities...
>
> BR
> Rute
>
> On 04/13/2016 01:24 PM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan wrote:les
>
> Hello Jim & Henning -
>
>
>
> I think Henning has raised an interesting & thought provoking question -
> how do we define rural?
>
>
>
> I agree - if you see in the UK and other "developed" countries - many
> multi billionaires live in rural areas -
>
> look at weybridge in the UK:
> http://www.hamptons.co.uk/forsaleoffice/weybridge/1599/
>
>
>
> :)
>
>
>
> should we consider from a "network access" perspective areas like
> Weybridge as really rural -
>
>
>
> should rural be classified from an affordability angle? but in urban areas
> affordability is also an issue - so that leads me to
>
>
>
> maybe - we should have new classification probably not by geography but
> rather socio-economic status?
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> On 13 April 2016 at 02:37, Jim Forster <jrforster@mac.com> wrote:
>
> (Perhaps covered already in the draft…)
>
>
>
> Sometimes, especially in developing countries, rural also loosely implies
> a poorer economic situation (average income per capita) than metro areas in
> the same country, and frequently reduced general infrastructure (roads,
> water systems, grid power) than the metro areas.  I think one of the
> drivers for migration to cities in developing counties is somewhat better
> infrastructure in cities than in the rural areas.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 12, 2016, at 6:59 PM, Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Defining "rural" is surprisingly difficult - the US government is rumored
> to have 50 definitions. From a networking perspective, it's very different
> whether you connect isolated rural dwellings, separated by miles, or
> villages, with clusters of a few hundred residences. (In the US, think
> Vermont small town vs. individual farms in Kansas or Oklahoma or homes
> along rural streets in West Virginia.)
>
>
>
> One distinction is the average (or median) distance between network end
> points.
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Arjuna Sathiaseelan
> Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
> N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
> --
>
> Melhores Cumprimentos/Best Regards/mit freundlichen Gruessen,
>
> Rute Sofia
>
> ............................
>
> COPELABS - Association for Research and Development in Cognition and People-centric Computing
>
> Senior Researcher/Director
>
> http://copelabs.ulusofona.pt
>
>
>
> http://copelabs.ulusofona.pt/~rsofia
>
> http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/rute-sofia
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rute_Sofia
>
>