Re: [gaia] Internet censorship and blockade in Catalonia (Spain) in the recent weeks and today

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[e-mail]>]

Fully agree, but I can’t let false information to be spread in an IETF list.

I’m not going to debate about it here.

Regards,
Jordi
 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: gaia <[e-mail]> en nombre de Arjuna Sathiaseelan <[e-mail]>
Responder a: <[e-mail]>
Fecha: domingo, 1 de octubre de 2017, 15:10
Para: <[e-mail]>
CC: gaia <[e-mail]>
Asunto: Re: [gaia] Internet censorship and blockade in Catalonia (Spain) in the recent weeks and today

    Great thanks.
    Better to have any further political debates done offlist imho.
    
    Thanks.
    Regards
    
    
    On 1 Oct 2017 13:35, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <[e-mail]> wrote:
    
    I’m sorry, but this is not true. Ignoring part of the info, and spreading only partial histories, don’t make them true, actually is a way to CENSOR.
    
    I’m Catalonian and my view of the true is different. I’ve also seen some of the Court Orders, so I know what I’m speaking about.
    
    You’re also mistranslating *military police* from *guardia civil*, which is a totally different concept. Guardia Civil is the police that supports citizens in the small towns, take care of traffic in roads, and also many investigations related to cybercrime, among others. An explanation is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Guard_(Spain)
    
    Also, http://www.guardiacivil.es/en/institucional/Conocenos/idcorporativa/naturalezami/index.html
    
    Our Constitution doesn’t allow to split the country, neither a referendum about that obviously. You can find consensus with all the parties, as they have been talking about for years, to amend the Constitution, but not to disobey the law. Otherwise, all the citizens will have the same right to ignore laws.
    
    So, isn’t the Spanish Government, but the Constitutional Court that has dictated that this process is illegal and can’t take place and took measures, such as blocking ONLY web sites duplicating the illegal information about the process. The same as if terrorist or thief’s, decide to create web sites to do apology of illegal acts, they will be banned, as well as every new copy.
    
    I’m all for freedom of speech, but never going against the law in a democratic country.
    
    I’ve several cases myself against the Spanish Government, and one of them already for 15 years. Should I disobey the law and jump over? NO, despite how much I believe I’m right (as many other people affected by this case), I need to wait, even if this takes other 15 years.
    
    If we allow, IN ANY *DEMOCRATIC* COUNTRY in the world, to jump over laws, we don’t have democracy anymore. I want also to split my home and the land where it is constructed from the country. Is that right?
    
    So, in consequence, anyone doing illegal acts, such as preparing the illegal referendum, will need to be prosecuted, pay the fines, etc., OTHERWHISE, the rest of the citizens will have the SAME rights, to bypass even traffic fines.
    
    I’ve described the situation in a couple of articles:
    
    http://www.circleid.com/posts/20170926_catalonian_matter_law_order_democracy_freedom_of_speech_censorship/
    
    https://jordipalet.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/isoc-against-its-own-principles-acting.html
    
    
    
    Regards,
    Jordi
    
    
    -----Mensaje original-----
    De: gaia <[e-mail]> en nombre de Leandro Navarro <[e-mail]>
    Responder a: <[e-mail]>
    Fecha: domingo, 1 de octubre de 2017, 13:50
    Para: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
    Asunto: [gaia] Internet censorship and blockade in Catalonia (Spain) in the recent weeks and today
    
        Dear all,
    
        You may have heard that today the 1-O referendum in Catalonia is
        ongoing. 73% of electoral offices were open this morning despite the
        blockade from prosecutors, judges and the charges from police forces.
        There are very long queues to vote.
    
        Meanwhile the "guardia civil", a military police, together with the riot
         police, have entered in large groups to some of the electoral offices
        (especially those where high profile politicians were expected) to seize
         the ballot boxes and papers. As a result of the police charges to
        peaceful people, tenths of people have suffered injuries (you can find
        in the media sad images in the election offices).
    
        As a result of a long list of measures and countermeasures to avoid the
        referendum (many orders from public prosecutors, only recently from a
        judge, budget blockade to public payments of many kind), the Catalan
        government has declared this morning the "universal census" so people
        can move and vote in alternative offices if his own is blocked (as the
        validation of voters is done over the Internet). Civil society have
        found ways to spread the message and enable voting that were not
        possible many years ago.
    
        Voting is slow and painful but is progressing. There are many network
        attacks, the police has disconnected Internet access and wifi APs to
        schools to block the election offices, and many sites to collect and coordinate the process. The Internet is fragmented in Catalonia. Hundreds of web sites from public but
        also civil-society organizations have been seized or blocked. A few days
         ago, the tech responsible of the .cat TLD was literally taken from him
        home while showering and detained for 3 days with no formal accusation.
        As a result, the .cat TLD and many .cat sites have been blocked. Some people that
        replicated web sites where detained and forced (by a judge + police) to
        give their passwords for, not only the sites, but also their personal
        email and personal accounts in social media.  Citizens and electoral
        offices are using new imaginative and decentralized means to deliver
        votes and manage the census (using VPNs abroad, Tor, IPFS, etc) to
        certify the process.
    
        This repression and human rights violations against a peaceful movement,
         to block the political expression of a large group of
        citizens against political problems, cannot be justified as being
        declared "illegal" respect to a given rule of law (the Spanish
        constitution defined 42 years ago, never reformed). Let's see what political solutions we can find now, after years of
        political fights, and a weekend of repressive police actions against so
        many citizens willing to express their political opinions. Probably it
        will not be easier than before.
    
        In my opinion, the human right for expression goes before the defense of
         a given rule of law. Political negotiation and reforms are the way, and not
        censorship, police charges and repression.
    
        Certainly the Internet makes a difference in this process, for those
        inside and outside. Among many other sad examples around the world,
        let's learn and apply our lessons to build a more resilient and open Internet for
        everyone.
    
        Kind regards, Leandro.
        --
        Leandro Navarro
        http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro     http://dsg.ac.upc.edu
    
    
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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.