Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments
Mitar <mmitar@gmail.com> Thu, 14 April 2016 09:21 UTC
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:21:52 -0700
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From: Mitar <mmitar@gmail.com>
To: future@systemli.org
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Subject: Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments
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Hi! Those are mostly overlay networks, no? They do not really work on providing the infrastructure itself? I think this document is targeting networks which provide infrastructure in some alternative ways. Some other similar projects (to my knowledge): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cjdns https://ipfs.io/ Mitar On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 2:45 PM, <future@systemli.org> wrote: > Hi all, > What do you think of including potential Future Alternative Networks? > As i mentioned before-see below- these focus on privacy and security and to > even replace the current insecure Internet with a new one. > > Kind regards > Fmod > > ###################### > Hi, > > I think we should discuss this in the GAIA list. I would like to hear > others' opinions. If you could post this message there, it would be great. > > Thanks! > > Jose > > ########################### >> >> >> Hi Jose, >> >> yes. Currently there are no wireless communities using this software. >> But i suggested to put them under a new section: >> Possible ->Future<- Alternative Networks. >> Since they are aiming at replacing the existing solutions with more secure >> and >> privacy preserving ones- even replacing the existing Internet-protocol >> stack: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4J7ljCExM >> >> Kind regards >> Dmos >> >> >> Am 2016-04-11 08:30, schrieb Jose Saldana: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I have had a look to the web sites you suggest in your e-mail. The >> > question is that I think they are not about Alternative Networks, but >> > about alternative protocols or applications. I mean, none of them is >> > about deploying new physical infrastructure, but about software. The >> > draft is about deploying new networks, with physical devices, links, >> > antennae, etc. >> > >> > Do you think this is true for all the links you have sent? >> > >> > Thanks in advance, >> > >> > Jose >> > >> > El 2016-04-06 13:33, future@systemli.org escribió: >> >> Dear authors of "Alternative Network Deployments: Taxonomy, >> >> characterization, >> >> technologies and architectures >> >> draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-04" >> >> >> >> I'd find it useful if your draft provided a perspective towards >> >> future Alternative Networks. >> >> I am thinking of software projects that have a strong emphasis on >> >> privacy and security in their network design. >> >> After Snowden it is only a logical next step in order to meet the >> >> requirement of providing "freedom to communicate without >> >> interference, or interception" to explore and develop this kind of >> >> networks for public use. >> >> So these projects are for example >> >> >> >> * GNUnet [1] >> >> * Maidsafe [2] >> >> * Net2o [3] >> >> * Briar [4] >> >> * Sneakernet aDTN with its client Timberdoodle [5] >> >> >> >> Some of these have developed privacy aware routing algorithms and >> >> decentral naming systems for about a decade now. >> >> So in contrast to the existing Alternative Networks they provide >> >> meta-data-protection (implications of having none: [13]) by design as >> >> well as the encryption of contents. >> >> What makes them special is that some of them (the first three) are >> >> alternative internet protocol stacks which don't depend on servers or >> >> central authorites. They are fully distributed and decentralized. So >> >> they not only have the potential to provide a free and open >> >> communication means to its users but also one that backs up their >> >> civil rights by being censorship resistant and by keeping its users' >> >> communication confidental and secure - more than the current internet >> >> does. [6],[7] >> >> >> >> It is only a matter of time that they include the capability to do >> >> mesh networking. >> >> GNUnet has its own module for this: CADET [8][9]. >> >> GNUnet has been packed for OpenWRT half a year ago [10] It fits on a >> >> 8 MB Router and possibly on a 4 MB one, but still needs improvements >> >> to "dance the wifi" [11]. >> >> Maidsafe is rewritten in Rust- a security aware language. This >> >> rewrite should fit well on embedded devices. >> >> When Rust is ported to OpenWRT also Maidsafe can run its first >> >> experiments with open-wireless-networks. >> >> Net2o is built to be lightweight as well. It's developer claims that >> >> there is no reason why it should be not able to do >> >> wifi-mesh-networking. >> >> >> >> You really should mention in your draft, that community networks are >> >> severely threatend by FCC and EU regulations.[12] Proposal 1: All >> >> radio equipped hardware being sold must be open and enable >> >> alternative firmware to be deployed. >> >> >> >> The current open frequencies have a very low throughput or need an >> >> enormous effort and knowledge to use them. >> >> Wifi delivers very bad results when walls, vegetation or water is >> >> involved. >> >> Proposal 2: The most suitable (best throughput under various >> >> conditions) frequencies must be opened for public use worldwide. >> >> Under these conditions more people would be able to participate in >> >> digital communication. >> >> >> >> Streets have physical limitations. Who owns them has got a monopoly. >> >> With telecommunication infrastructure it is quite similar and the >> >> reason why for example in Germany at last the variety of >> >> telecommunication providers has declined with the result of one >> >> telecommunication provider having a monopoly and therefore can >> >> dictate the prices.(Telekom) Streets as well as communication means >> >> are vital for the well being of a society. >> >> To leave these life veins to bodies with commercial interest without >> >> ethical commitments results in a discrimination (against) the poor. >> >> In wireless communities the poor depend on the generosity of others >> >> to pay their access where it is actually the responsibilty of a >> >> country to provide free access to communication means >> >> indiscriminately to its inhabitants as it is ususal for streets and >> >> has been proven to be a good idea. >> >> Therefore >> >> Proposal 3: The digital communication infrastructure such as >> >> conductions and antennas should be mostly tax funded, free to use and >> >> in public hand. >> >> >> >> >> >> [1] https://gnunet.org/ >> >> [2] http://maidsafe.net/ >> >> [3] http://net2o.de/ >> >> [4] https://briarproject.org/ >> >> [5] https://github.com/timberdoodle/TimberdoodleApp >> >> >> >> [6] https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/papers/65.pdf >> >> [7] wiki.c3d2.de/EDN >> >> [8] https://gnunet.org/cadet >> >> [9] >> >> http://mirror.eu.oneandone.net/projects/media.ccc.de/congress/2013/wo >> >> rkshops/30c3-WS-en-YBTI_Mesh-Bart_Polot- >> GNUnet_Wireless_Mesh_DHT.webm >> >> [10] https://github.com/dangowrt/gnunet-15.05 >> >> >> >> [11] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEBu7u6hZSo >> >> [12] https://fsfe.org/activities/radiodirective/ >> >> [13] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g00l5qBYXu8, starting from >> >> minute >> >> 4:00 >> >> >> >> >> >> Hope this helped. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Fmod >> >> >> >> Project EDN >> >> wiki.c3d2.de/EDN >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> gaia mailing list >> >> gaia@irtf.org >> >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > gaia mailing list >> > gaia@irtf.org >> > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia -- http://mitar.tnode.com/ https://twitter.com/mitar_m
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Mat Ford
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Mat Ford
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Javier Simó
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Niels ten Oever
- [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternati… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aldebaro Klautau
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Santiago Ferreira
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aaron Kaplan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aaron Kaplan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Eggert, Lars
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Vesna Manojlovic
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… future
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… future
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Nicolás Echániz
- [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-… future
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Mitar
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… future
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Mitar
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Jose Saldana