Re: [gaia] An Internet Draft about Community Networks. A first question

["Jose Saldana" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Dirk,

Clearly this is a difficult question. We wanted to write a document about Community Networks. But clearly the borderlines and the classification are tricky.

We have tried to find some characteristics and components in order to build a "taxonomy". It seems that we are still far from a good solution. That is why we have submitted this draft. We need the (constructive if possible) opinion and experience of people in the list.

Perhaps we could try to find some "orthogonal" characteristics in order to build a good classification. It can be based on:

- Technology
- Economy
- People involvement
- Resource sharing


For example, the contribution of Steve reporting this: "By limiting ourselves to WiFi generation technologies, we exclude other inspiring examples such as the Rhizomatica GSM network in Oaxaca.[2]   We also rule out community fibre initiatives which is where Guifi.net have been moving to as well as many other communities[3]" is very good, since we get an example of non-Wi-Fi (and not even wireless) CN.


Jose


> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Trossen, Dirk [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Enviado el: miércoles, 18 de junio de 2014 17:12
> Para: Arjuna Sathiaseelan
> CC: Jose Saldana; gaia
> Asunto: RE: [gaia] An Internet Draft about Community Networks. A first question
> 
> ...I know you have but I miss the organizing principle here that separates the
> 'community led wireless mesh, led by the people' from 'crowdshared approaches'.
> Is it architecturally? Is it socio-economically? You suggest in the intro to Section 4
> that it is 'according to their intended usage' but I don't see the difference here and,
> still, why are your examples like city council supported initiatives, FON, ... left out? Is
> this only about community networks (according to some definition) or about ways to
> bring Internet connectivity to people?
> 
> Maybe I'm struggling with the objective of the document to focus on some notion of
> 'community wireless networks' with their 'technological characteristics' and their
> 'sustainability models'. Again, where is the borderline and why?
> 
> Dirk
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On
> Behalf Of Arjuna Sathiaseelan
> Sent: 18 June 2014 15:41
> To: Trossen, Dirk
> Cc: Jose Saldana; gaia
> Subject: Re: [gaia] An Internet Draft about Community Networks. A first question
> 
> Hello Dirk, Jose,
> 
>  Yes, we have included that in the draft (section 4.1 is dedicated to
> that) - where we talk about the VNO led crowdshared approaches.
> 
> Yes and architecturally they are the same.
> 
> Regards
> Arjuna
> 
> On 18 June 2014 15:34, Trossen, Dirk <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > ...a thought: if FON was a regional authority, acting as a virtual network operator,
> would it be included then?
> >
> > Point is that the 'sharing by end users' and 'managed by some entity' can have
> facets that reach (in terms of said entity) from a corporate entity over a social
> community (e.g., a cooperative formed by these users) to a regional authority (e.g.,
> a municipality trying to foster local Internet uptake or dedicated programmes like
> digital education). Where would we draw the borderline, if architecturally though
> they're all more or less the same?
> >
> > Dirk
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gaia [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Jose Saldana
> > Sent: 18 June 2014 15:26
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: [gaia] An Internet Draft about Community Networks. A
> > first question
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > We have a first question. We had some doubts about this: should we include in
> the draft Networks in which Wi-Fi is shared by individuals, but they are in fact
> managed by a company (e.g. FON)?
> >
> >> >    There exist other networks, also based on sharing wireless resources
> >> >    of the users, but not built upon the initiative of the users
> >> >    themselves, nor owned by them.  The characterization of these
> >> >    networks is not the objective of this document.
> >
> > As you may see, in the current version they are not included, but we have some
> doubts...
> >
> > Jose
> >
> >> -----Mensaje original-----
> >> De: gaia [mailto:[e-mail]] En nombre de Jose Saldana
> >> Enviado el: miércoles, 18 de junio de 2014 16:21
> >> Para: [e-mail]
> >> Asunto: [gaia] An Internet Draft about Community Networks
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> After some weeks, we have been able to build an Internet Draft about
> >> Community Networks. At this stage we would like to hear the feedback from
> people in the list.
> >>
> >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-manyfolks-gaia-community-networ
> >> k
> >> s/
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Jose
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Mensaje original-----
> >> > De: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
> >> > Enviado
> >> > el: miércoles, 18 de junio de 2014 16:18
> >> > Para: Carlos Rey-Moreno; Leandro Navarro; Carlos Rey-Moreno; Andres
> >> > Arcia- Moret; Marco Zennaro; Arjuna Sathiaseelan; Arjuna
> >> > Sathiaseelan; Bart Braem; Leandro Navarro; Bart Braem; Jose
> >> > Saldana; Ermanno Pietrosemoli; Ermanno Pietrosemoli; Jose Saldana;
> >> > Marco Zennaro; Andres Arcia-Moret
> >> > Asunto: New Version Notification for
> >> > draft-manyfolks-gaia-community-networks-
> >> > 00.txt
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > A new version of I-D,
> >> > draft-manyfolks-gaia-community-networks-00.txt
> >> > has been successfully submitted by Jose Saldana and posted to the
> >> > IETF repository.
> >> >
> >> > Name:               draft-manyfolks-gaia-community-networks
> >> > Revision:   00
> >> > Title:              Community Networks. Definition and taxonomy
> >> > Document date:      2014-06-18
> >> > Group:              Individual Submission
> >> > Pages:              23
> >> > URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-manyfolks-gaia-
> community-
> >> > networks-00.txt
> >> > Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-manyfolks-gaia-community-
> >> > networks/
> >> > Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manyfolks-gaia-community-
> networks-
> >> 00
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Abstract:
> >> >    Several communities have developed initiatives to build large scale,
> >> >    self-organized and decentralized community wireless networks that use
> >> >    wireless technologies (including long distance) due to the reduced
> >> >    cost of using the unlicensed spectrum.  This can be motivated by
> >> >    different causes: Sometimes the reluctance, or the impossibility, of
> >> >    network operators to provide wired and cellular infrastructures to
> >> >    rural/remote areas has motivated the rise of these networks.  Some
> >> >    other times, they are built as a complement and an alternative to
> >> >    wired Internet access.
> >> >
> >> >    These community wireless networks have self sustainable business
> >> >    models that provide more localised communication services as well as
> >> >    providing Internet backhaul support through peering agreements with
> >> >    traditional network operators who see such community led networks as
> >> >    a way to extend their reach to rural/remote areas at lower cost.
> >> >
> >> >    This document defines these networks, summarizes their technological
> >> >    characteristics and classifies them, also talking about their socio-
> >> >    economic sustainability models.
> >> >
> >> >    There exist other networks, also based on sharing wireless resources
> >> >    of the users, but not built upon the initiative of the users
> >> >    themselves, nor owned by them.  The characterization of these
> >> >    networks is not the objective of this document.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> >> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >> >
> >> > The IETF Secretariat
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > Dirk Trossen
> > Principal Engineer
> > InterDigital UK, Inc.
> > Shoreditch Business Center
> > 64 Great Eastern Street
> > London, EC2A 3QR
> > T: [phone]
> > [e-mail]
> > www.InterDigital.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> 
> --
> Arjuna Sathiaseelan | http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/