[gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments
future@systemli.org Wed, 13 April 2016 21:45 UTC
Return-Path: <future@systemli.org>
X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7AD12DFB6 for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:45:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.001
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=systemli.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V3Zo3xSLphre for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:45:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.systemli.org (systemli.sh1b.ch [212.103.72.251]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 013C912DF61 for <gaia@irtf.org>; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:45:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: gaia@irtf.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=systemli.org; s=default; t=1460583945; bh=CHVilegaLb2ZQJdLhW2r7/s//k1tIO4E6NhGSvoPkPY=; h=To:Subject:Date:From:In-Reply-To:References; b=k8g3q3GTOKBIrrEO3chkITp6Coq0J9PW9FwkKWsb65zQqoaY9pBlDeXcFA10YVSog t1NDMIoNZMB1d7ccsF1JF1GWd4GxhCzsu5Tv4SY0Z4wphKcQ1O/w4aCqUNcIKTkQRG 0bnRUr49UahKUTMdBcE28ZhuBYq8rO/4RxqTd6KM=
X-PHP-Originating-Script: 5003:rcube.php
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:45:45 +0000
From: future@systemli.org
In-Reply-To: <006b01d19554$eff69080$cfe3b180$@unizar.es>
References: <ee014af6a8b3e085b427caac65547999@systemli.org> <5d76a50d6f49977440e927a742aa27e5@unizar.es> <705aac1463952c2a0630f63ec198a894@systemli.org> <006b01d19554$eff69080$cfe3b180$@unizar.es>
Message-ID: <695d7f8c0af83663c60adda51613382d@systemli.org>
X-Sender: future@systemli.org
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gaia/drEsEUOmEvG_gvVMfQuXHhg7lJ4>
Subject: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments
X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All <gaia.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gaia/>
List-Post: <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:45:51 -0000
Hi all, What do you think of including potential Future Alternative Networks? As i mentioned before-see below- these focus on privacy and security and to even replace the current insecure Internet with a new one. Kind regards Fmod ###################### Hi, I think we should discuss this in the GAIA list. I would like to hear others' opinions. If you could post this message there, it would be great. Thanks! Jose ########################### > > Hi Jose, > > yes. Currently there are no wireless communities using this software. > But i suggested to put them under a new section: > Possible ->Future<- Alternative Networks. > Since they are aiming at replacing the existing solutions with more > secure and > privacy preserving ones- even replacing the existing Internet-protocol > stack: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4J7ljCExM > > Kind regards > Dmos > > Am 2016-04-11 08:30, schrieb Jose Saldana: > > Hi, > > > > I have had a look to the web sites you suggest in your e-mail. The > > question is that I think they are not about Alternative Networks, but > > about alternative protocols or applications. I mean, none of them is > > about deploying new physical infrastructure, but about software. The > > draft is about deploying new networks, with physical devices, links, > > antennae, etc. > > > > Do you think this is true for all the links you have sent? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jose > > > > El 2016-04-06 13:33, future@systemli.org escribió: > >> Dear authors of "Alternative Network Deployments: Taxonomy, > >> characterization, > >> technologies and architectures > >> draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-04" > >> > >> I'd find it useful if your draft provided a perspective towards > >> future Alternative Networks. > >> I am thinking of software projects that have a strong emphasis on > >> privacy and security in their network design. > >> After Snowden it is only a logical next step in order to meet the > >> requirement of providing "freedom to communicate without > >> interference, or interception" to explore and develop this kind of > >> networks for public use. > >> So these projects are for example > >> > >> * GNUnet [1] > >> * Maidsafe [2] > >> * Net2o [3] > >> * Briar [4] > >> * Sneakernet aDTN with its client Timberdoodle [5] > >> > >> Some of these have developed privacy aware routing algorithms and > >> decentral naming systems for about a decade now. > >> So in contrast to the existing Alternative Networks they provide > >> meta-data-protection (implications of having none: [13]) by design as > >> well as the encryption of contents. > >> What makes them special is that some of them (the first three) are > >> alternative internet protocol stacks which don't depend on servers or > >> central authorites. They are fully distributed and decentralized. So > >> they not only have the potential to provide a free and open > >> communication means to its users but also one that backs up their > >> civil rights by being censorship resistant and by keeping its users' > >> communication confidental and secure - more than the current internet > >> does. [6],[7] > >> > >> It is only a matter of time that they include the capability to do > >> mesh networking. > >> GNUnet has its own module for this: CADET [8][9]. > >> GNUnet has been packed for OpenWRT half a year ago [10] It fits on a > >> 8 MB Router and possibly on a 4 MB one, but still needs improvements > >> to "dance the wifi" [11]. > >> Maidsafe is rewritten in Rust- a security aware language. This > >> rewrite should fit well on embedded devices. > >> When Rust is ported to OpenWRT also Maidsafe can run its first > >> experiments with open-wireless-networks. > >> Net2o is built to be lightweight as well. It's developer claims that > >> there is no reason why it should be not able to do > >> wifi-mesh-networking. > >> > >> You really should mention in your draft, that community networks are > >> severely threatend by FCC and EU regulations.[12] Proposal 1: All > >> radio equipped hardware being sold must be open and enable > >> alternative firmware to be deployed. > >> > >> The current open frequencies have a very low throughput or need an > >> enormous effort and knowledge to use them. > >> Wifi delivers very bad results when walls, vegetation or water is > >> involved. > >> Proposal 2: The most suitable (best throughput under various > >> conditions) frequencies must be opened for public use worldwide. > >> Under these conditions more people would be able to participate in > >> digital communication. > >> > >> Streets have physical limitations. Who owns them has got a monopoly. > >> With telecommunication infrastructure it is quite similar and the > >> reason why for example in Germany at last the variety of > >> telecommunication providers has declined with the result of one > >> telecommunication provider having a monopoly and therefore can > >> dictate the prices.(Telekom) Streets as well as communication means > >> are vital for the well being of a society. > >> To leave these life veins to bodies with commercial interest without > >> ethical commitments results in a discrimination (against) the poor. > >> In wireless communities the poor depend on the generosity of others > >> to pay their access where it is actually the responsibilty of a > >> country to provide free access to communication means > >> indiscriminately to its inhabitants as it is ususal for streets and > >> has been proven to be a good idea. > >> Therefore > >> Proposal 3: The digital communication infrastructure such as > >> conductions and antennas should be mostly tax funded, free to use and > >> in public hand. > >> > >> > >> [1] https://gnunet.org/ > >> [2] http://maidsafe.net/ > >> [3] http://net2o.de/ > >> [4] https://briarproject.org/ > >> [5] https://github.com/timberdoodle/TimberdoodleApp > >> > >> [6] https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/papers/65.pdf > >> [7] wiki.c3d2.de/EDN > >> [8] https://gnunet.org/cadet > >> [9] > >> http://mirror.eu.oneandone.net/projects/media.ccc.de/congress/2013/wo > >> rkshops/30c3-WS-en-YBTI_Mesh-Bart_Polot- > GNUnet_Wireless_Mesh_DHT.webm > >> [10] https://github.com/dangowrt/gnunet-15.05 > >> > >> [11] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEBu7u6hZSo > >> [12] https://fsfe.org/activities/radiodirective/ > >> [13] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g00l5qBYXu8, starting from > >> minute > >> 4:00 > >> > >> > >> Hope this helped. > >> Kind regards > >> Fmod > >> > >> Project EDN > >> wiki.c3d2.de/EDN > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> gaia mailing list > >> gaia@irtf.org > >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gaia mailing list > > gaia@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Mat Ford
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Mat Ford
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Javier Simó
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Niels ten Oever
- [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alternati… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aldebaro Klautau
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Santiago Ferreira
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aaron Kaplan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Aaron Kaplan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Eggert, Lars
- Re: [gaia] [irsg] Review required: draft-irtf-gai… Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Vesna Manojlovic
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… future
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… future
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Jose Saldana
- Re: [gaia] Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-alter… Nicolás Echániz
- [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-gaia-… future
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Mitar
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… future
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Mitar
- Re: [gaia] Fwd: RE: Review required: draft-irtf-g… Jose Saldana