Re: [gaia] draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments. Mitar review, question #3. Typical scenarios

All of these quoted definitions need citations. Also, as noted, there is no
single definition of urban or rural in the United States (and, I suspect,
in other countries), but the text implies that there is.

For networking purposes, I think density of network endpoints (households,
businesses and anchor institutions like schools and hospitals) seems like
the most relevant characteristic as that directly determines the economics
of building fiber networks, reduces the typical DSL speed and may imply the
absence of any wired infrastructure in emerging economies.

Lower-than-average income  exacerbates the problem - you might be able to
recover the higher capital costs from rich dude farms in Wyoming or ski
chalets in Aspen (or use satellite), but not in rural West Virginia.

Here's text:

There is no single definition of "rural" or "urban", as each country and
various international organizations define these terms differently. For
networking purposes, the primary distinction is likely the average distance
between customers, typically measured by population density, as well as the
distance to the nearest Internet point-of-presence, i.e., the distance to
be covered by "middle mile" or back haul connectivity.  Some regions with
low average population density may cluster almost all inhabitants into a
small number of relatively-dense small towns, for example, while residents
may be dispersed more evenly in others.

Henning

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es> wrote:

> Well, a possible solution is to define “urban” first (there are some
> definitions), and say that “rural” is the opposite (according to what Rute
> says).
>
>
>
> What about this?
>
>
>
>    o  Urban zone.  The definition of "urban" does vary between
>
>       countries, as shown in [UNStats].  For example, in the United
>
>       States they are defined as "Agglomerations of 2 500 or more
>
>       inhabitants, generally having population densities of 1 000
>
>       persons per square mile or more."  In China the term "city" is
>
>       proper of those designated by the State Council.  In Liberia they
>
>       are "Localities of 2 000 or more inhabitants."  In France they are
>
>       "communes containing an agglomeration of more than 2 000
>
>       inhabitants living in contiguous houses or with not more than 200
>
>       metres between houses."  In Guam, they are "agglomerations of 2
>
>       500 or more inhabitants, generally having population densities of
>
>       1 000 persons per square mile or more, referred to as "urban
>
>       clusters"".
>
>
>
>    o  Rural zone.  The document will use this term as oposed to "urban".
>
>       A definition of "rural " was proposed by G.  P.  Wibberley in 1972
>
>       [Wibberley]: "The word describes those parts of a country which
>
>       show unmistakable signs of being dominated by extensive uses of
>
>       land, either at the present time or in the immediate past.  It is
>
>       important to emphasise that these extensive uses might have had a
>
>       domination over an area which has now gone because this allows us
>
>       to look at settlements which to the eye still appear to be rural
>
>       but which, in practice, are merely an extension of the city
>
>       resulting from the development of the commuter train and the
>
>       private motor car" [Clot].
>
>
>
> Jose
>
> PS: I think this would be more than enough. Everyone has an idea of
> “rural” in his mind, but we cannot aspire to arrive to a tight definition
> of that term in an IRTF document ;-)
>
>
>
> *De:* Rute C. Sofia [mailto:rute.sofia@ulusofona.pt]
> *Enviado el:* miércoles, 13 de abril de 2016 14:36
> *Para:* Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk>; Jim
> Forster <jrforster@mac.com>
> *CC:* gaia <gaia@irtf.org>; Eric A. BREWER <brewer@berkeley.edu>; Mitar <
> mmitar@gmail.com>; Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es>; Henning Schulzrinne
> <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
> *Asunto:* Re: [gaia] draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments.
> Mitar review, question #3. Typical scenarios
>
>
>
> Hello Arjuna, Henning, Jim,
>
> The rural area definition relates with density. In the USA,
> https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/urban-rural.html
> The Census Bureau identifies two types of urban areas:
>
>    - Urbanized Areas (UAs) of 50,000 or more people;
>    - Urban Clusters (UCs) of at least 2,500 and less than 50,000 people.
>
> “Rural” encompasses all population, housing, and territory not included
> within an urban area.
>
> In Europe (
> http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/docgener/work/2014_01_new_urban.pdf
> )
> Thinly populated area (alternative name: rural area)
>      •    More than 50 % of the population living in rural
> grid cells.
>
> So, defining rural as thinly populated areas is relevant (and then,
> defining "thinly" :)). Despite the fact that (some) rural areas may be
> sustainable, the fact is that rural areas, due to lack of
> density/capilarity should be treated as a specific type of "smart"
> communities...
>
> BR
> Rute
>
> On 04/13/2016 01:24 PM, Arjuna Sathiaseelan wrote:les
>
> Hello Jim & Henning -
>
>
>
> I think Henning has raised an interesting & thought provoking question -
> how do we define rural?
>
>
>
> I agree - if you see in the UK and other "developed" countries - many
> multi billionaires live in rural areas -
>
> look at weybridge in the UK:
> http://www.hamptons.co.uk/forsaleoffice/weybridge/1599/
>
>
>
> :)
>
>
>
> should we consider from a "network access" perspective areas like
> Weybridge as really rural -
>
>
>
> should rural be classified from an affordability angle? but in urban areas
> affordability is also an issue - so that leads me to
>
>
>
> maybe - we should have new classification probably not by geography but
> rather socio-economic status?
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> On 13 April 2016 at 02:37, Jim Forster <jrforster@mac.com> wrote:
>
> (Perhaps covered already in the draft…)
>
>
>
> Sometimes, especially in developing countries, rural also loosely implies
> a poorer economic situation (average income per capita) than metro areas in
> the same country, and frequently reduced general infrastructure (roads,
> water systems, grid power) than the metro areas.  I think one of the
> drivers for migration to cities in developing counties is somewhat better
> infrastructure in cities than in the rural areas.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 12, 2016, at 6:59 PM, Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Defining "rural" is surprisingly difficult - the US government is rumored
> to have 50 definitions. From a networking perspective, it's very different
> whether you connect isolated rural dwellings, separated by miles, or
> villages, with clusters of a few hundred residences. (In the US, think
> Vermont small town vs. individual farms in Kansas or Oklahoma or homes
> along rural streets in West Virginia.)
>
>
>
> One distinction is the average (or median) distance between network end
> points.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gaia mailing list
> gaia@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Arjuna Sathiaseelan
> Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/
> N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> gaia mailing list
>
> gaia@irtf.org
>
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>
>
>
> --
>
> Melhores Cumprimentos/Best Regards/mit freundlichen Gruessen,
>
> Rute Sofia
>
> ............................
>
> COPELABS - Association for Research and Development in Cognition and People-centric Computing
>
> Senior Researcher/Director
>
> http://copelabs.ulusofona.pt
>
>
>
> http://copelabs.ulusofona.pt/~rsofia
>
> http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/rute-sofia
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rute_Sofia
>
>