Re: [gaia] RG Last Call: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02

Andrés Arcia-Moret <andres.arcia@gmail.com> Mon, 14 December 2015 13:51 UTC

Return-Path: <andres.arcia@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81CD21A0439 for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 05:51:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.699
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LUdokeAeNzLA for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 05:51:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3FDC1A047A for <gaia@irtf.org>; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 05:51:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id n186so46662876wmn.0 for <gaia@irtf.org>; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 05:51:21 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=mW+SYEgRl0vN3j7iYUPRA5oNSZaEAlelC14jofWKkWE=; b=qMPyQl0PqcYy7WB8vibQUJGnrGXUF/puI4md4m0ylOvqujbg6KM09uo1QoWYQrqeY5 lklh582zM2As+f21iZ5b6I07Xh4NQSMPIKGDN+wqDCF58BU2Xbm2+lukQTMCYB/+Aeyh Q6/z2QC0zwvIGNsQyphdOhccuL/nva4kYRZCFVZMlLO4NaHqi2GSbeNC7TzY0A/P1n1Y YAQjTfQjdVUiRhcIa00/38oRGi1m29JauvqKLUkCNKrgfWQcApARR8IJEwUKzOn8ZQjT cjBQ4YAEMrXtta3TeIMpNHednpq5h7y939SlnOEfseOm74/IAB+CL/nd2lzSsMvbFBfX TFiA==
X-Received: by 10.28.1.8 with SMTP id 8mr23985640wmb.40.1450101080285; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 05:51:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?IPv6:2001:630:212:248:6c18:a1e7:66f8:b309? ([2001:630:212:248:6c18:a1e7:66f8:b309]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id uz5sm29882155wjc.8.2015.12.14.05.51.18 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 14 Dec 2015 05:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_715C924F-977C-4EAE-B0E2-2B056900EB47"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\))
From: =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9s_Arcia-Moret?= <andres.arcia@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <566E906E.1080807@urjc.es>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 13:51:17 +0000
Message-Id: <C9648AE8-F81D-4A32-A859-474C27448D94@gmail.com>
References: <7F910716-1B51-41A6-9DC8-170F30C37803@isoc.org> <CAPaG1Ak3JsTn4O2DyO1JzN9RdbKR0XVMZB2Hy5+t_dFH4gEdog@mail.gmail.com> <12e3774a57a71bb8f974b66590925e9f@unizar.es> <566E906E.1080807@urjc.es>
To: =?utf-8?Q?Javier_Sim=C3=B3?= <javier.simo@urjc.es>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112)
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gaia/p1cLFRXxsVv85gvETEOSmPxVYSk>
Cc: gaia@irtf.org, jsaldana <jsaldana@unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [gaia] RG Last Call: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02
X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All <gaia.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gaia/>
List-Post: <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 13:51:25 -0000

Dear all,

I second Javier, voting "alternative". I think we’ve all agreed on the name alternative networks because it (mainly) matches an independent willingness of communities to get connected.. 

Cheers,

Andrés

 
> On 14 Dec 2015, at 09:48, Javier Simó <javier.simo@urjc.es> wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> I don't like the word "complementary" for two reasons:
> 
> 1) Something is complementary when there is no competition. But, why not? I don't see why a community network cannot be deployed even if it is somehow in competition with a "traditional" existing network deployed by an operator.
> 
> 2) The word "alternative" was used focusing on a number of criteria, not only on the non-existance of a traditional network.
> 
> I vote "alternative".
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Javier
> 
> 
> El 12/12/15 a las 17:03, jsaldana escribió:
>> Hi, Arjuna and all,
>> 
>> In my opinion, in order to clarify if "Alternative network" = "Complementary network", we should answer two questions:
>> 
>> A) Are all "Alternative networks" also "Complementary networks"?
>> 
>> In the draft we are considering five kinds of networks:
>> 
>> 1 Community Networks  
>> 2 Wireless Internet Service Providers WISPs
>> 3 Shared infrastructure model
>> 4 Crowdshared approaches, led by the people and third party stakeholders  
>> 5 Testbeds for research purposes
>> In the case of 4, it is clear that they are a "complement," since they share the infrastructure and may reduce the CAPEX of the operator.
>> 
>> In the case of 1, they may become a "complement". Is this currently happening?
>> 
>> I don't think that WISPs (2) usually share their infrastructure with traditional operators. Am I right?
>> 
>>  
>> B) Are all "Complementary networks" also "Alternative networks"?
>> 
>> I think for example in the Wi-Fi network of an airport. This network can be considered as "complementary", because it may be used to offload data from the mobile network. But it is not "alternative" (it is not included in the draft), because it may be promoted by a traditional operator (not by the people), etc.
>> 
>>  
>> Any other ideas?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jose
>> 
>>  
>> El 2015-12-12 13:45, Arjuna Sathiaseelan escribió:
>> 
>>> Thanks Mat. 
>>>  
>>> I have been recently discussing with Roger from Guifi about whether community networks should be termed as Alternative Networks or should it be called Complimentary Networks considering that community networks could end up sharing infrastructure with network operators who could see this as a great opportunity to access the last mile without a CAPEX.
>>>  
>>> So is Alternative Networks the right terminology or should we have Complimentary Networks?
>>>  
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> On 1 December 2015 at 16:28, Mat Ford <ford@isoc.org <mailto:ford@isoc.org>> wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>> 
>>> I think it’s time we tried to conclude our work on draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments. Jose detailed the changes in the most recent update when he announced the update to the list, so I won’t repeat those here. I have not seen any further discussion.
>>> 
>>> If you have any concerns or further comments regarding the content of this document, please raise them on this mailing list by Tuesday December 15th. I hope to initiate IRSG review of the document immediately thereafter.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mat
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gaia mailing list
>>> gaia@irtf.org <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia>
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> Arjuna Sathiaseelan 
>>> Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Eas2330/> 
>>> N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Eas2330/n4d>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gaia mailing list
>>> gaia@irtf.org <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> gaia mailing list
>> gaia@irtf.org <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia>
> 
> -- 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Fco. Javier Simó Reigadas <javier.simo@urjc.es> <mailto:javier.simo@urjc.es>
> Subdirector de Ord. Docente
> ETS de Ingeniería de Telecomunicación
> D-204, Departamental III
> Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid)
> Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500
> Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo <http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo>
> _______________________________________________
> gaia mailing list
> gaia@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

-
A/A/